Please Sort It Out


Blythman

Link Posted 05/07/2014 - 09:48
johnriley wrote:

Quote:
The mods need to man-up too. its ok to admit you're wrong. The thread that kicked all this off was deleted, and maybe rightly so. But be man enough to give an explanation instead of either hiding from it, or thinking its beneath you.

It's not beneath us. The matter was discussed with the OP and a conclusion reached. The detail of it is confidential to the OP and the team, so please respect that.

From when the "Heartless" thread started it took over 28 and a half hours for someone to offer any explanation for the deletion of the thread. How long was it in total from the time of the deletion?

That is worse than poor. I appreciate the detail was confidential. But a reasonable, early explanation is the least members should expect. No need to disclose full detail. Instead it was allowed to fester in a thread that had over 100 posts from (in the main disgruntled members)and almost 6,000 views.

So I re-iterate either you all hid from it hoping it would go away, or you didn't think the membership deserved that explanation. The inaction, for whatever reason has done more damage to the forum than any other single event since I've been a member here.

So, whatever changes are in the pipeline, think them through properly. And implement them as a matter of urgency. Otherwise, while Jeff says we should support the moderators, those moderators may end up just moderating themselves

The fact that my previous post was at 1:50am is an indication of the level of frustration I have with the current situation, which in the main has been self inflicted by the "team".
Alan


PPG
Flickr
Last Edited by Blythman on 05/07/2014 - 09:52

mudge

Link Posted 05/07/2014 - 09:54
Horst, in answer to your question:- I bothered to read this thread because I saw, on the "What's New" Board (which I always look at), that the discussion was around someone being banned, and I was curious to why!
I might have jumped in with both feet, without fully appreciating the full background, and for that I apologise!
I also appreciate the points you make, which are very valid!

screwdriver222, I fully agree
Last Edited by mudge on 05/07/2014 - 09:54

RalphHardwick

Link Posted 05/07/2014 - 10:26
I have not posted on here for over a month although I have visited regularly. I have joined the 'other' forum and posted a couple of times and had a very good response from the moderators there to suggestions I have made.

I have made suggestions here in, what I feel, has been a reasonable tone but, sadly, have been utterly amazed and disappointed by the responses from the forum staff/moderators.

I first started posting on here to get advice on changing systems from olympus to pentax in 2012 and I was very impressed with the helpful responses and advice that I got. I have tried to be an active member, post photos and join in and stimulate debate. I really liked this site (and deep down still do!).

However since davidstorm's post (link) things have gone dramatically downhill.
I was happy(ish) to work within the 'pentax' only rules and I liked the degree of civility achieved by the moderators but, for some reason, in the period leading up to and following davids post the style of moderation changed.

Mass bannings, deleted posts and entire threads, members who have contributed for years with 1000's of posts having their comments 'closed down' by PU Team members with less than 10 or 20 all add up to making me fell quite uncomfortable.

I have posted my suggestions before and they, clearly, have been deemed unworthy of action. So I shall not repeat them or go over the same old ground other than to say that this forum needs to move with the times and implement some changes if it wants to attract new members and keep the ones it already has.

derek897 wrote:
I miss the old pu.
Derek.

I do to and I hope it can get back to being a comfortable place to discuss photography. Right now I am so concerned with what I can and cannot type that I shall sit out for a while and wait for the dust to settle. I shall be watching in the hope that the "old pu" returns.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
CaptureLight Ltd
flickr
"I carry a camera to capture memories and the occasional photograph worthy of sharing"

davidstorm

Link Posted 05/07/2014 - 10:26
I echo Alan's (Blythman) words in full.

I hope that I have been a significant contributor to this site in the past 3 years or so, both from a photographic and a Forum perspective. I too have joined the EU site, but from what I've seen I also won't be spending my time on there too much as I don't care for the format, nor for the undercurrent of sniping, which unfortunately has also been prevalent on here. I want this site to work, to be a valuable resource for Pentax photographers. For it to be that, it must have regular contributions from experienced and talented photographers, the likes of which Alan has mentioned.

It will not achieve this unless changes are made and there is a more open and honest approach introduced by the moderation team, by that I mean exactly what Alan has referred to in terms of keeping the members informed in a timely and honest way about why certain things have been done.

We will always have some dissent, all Forums do, but it's the way in which it is handled which will make all the difference. At least there is some passion being shown by one or two people, which is good! I'm off to the Tour de France now, so bye for a couple of days.

Regards
David
My Website http://imagesbydavidstorm.foliopic.com

Flickr

Some cameras, some lenses, some bits 'n' bobs

McBrian

Link Posted 05/07/2014 - 19:47
I to have to echo both Alan and David's thoughts, if Aurora's post had be stripped and an explanation put in its place and the thread locked none of this at would probably have happened at this point in time, but human nature being what it is I'm sure it would have occurred in the not to distant future.

In my 10+ active years (yes ten past January on this site I have seen 2 or 3 spats like this but the site has always recovered but I think now is the time for a bit of modernisation, both in what can and can't be discussed/posted. A change in moderation attitude back to what it was, a bit more light hearted and explanatory will not go amiss, letting the membership know why something has been deleted/locked is just manners.

I too have joined the other site, I don't know if it's any better than here yet, it's no more active and the newish members have already had a lecture from the admin

Time will tell.

Anyway I'm away to post some Puffin pics
Cheers
Brian.
LBA is good for you, a Lens a day helps you work, rest and play.

jamieallan

Link Posted 05/07/2014 - 20:17
davidstorm wrote:
I echo Alan's (Blythman) words in full.

I hope that I have been a significant contributor to this site in the past 3 years or so, both from a photographic and a Forum perspective. I too have joined the EU site, but from what I've seen I also won't be spending my time on there too much as I don't care for the format, nor for the undercurrent of sniping, which unfortunately has also been prevalent on here. I want this site to work, to be a valuable resource for Pentax photographers. For it to be that, it must have regular contributions from experienced and talented photographers, the likes of which Alan has mentioned.

It will not achieve this unless changes are made and there is a more open and honest approach introduced by the moderation team, by that I mean exactly what Alan has referred to in terms of keeping the members informed in a timely and honest way about why certain things have been done.

We will always have some dissent, all Forums do, but it's the way in which it is handled which will make all the difference.

Regards
David

I wholly agree with David's sentiments. However I think that it's a forlorn hope that it will be 'sorted out'. I've watched over the last few weeks how this whole topic of the management of this site has been played out. Frankly it leaves a sour taste with me. There appears to be a rigid, uncompromising view by the administration which is not in keeping with a photography forum run for the benefit of the users of the marque. I've been a member of another photography forum of a different marque for the last 5 years which is run very well by the admins with no heavy interventions - so it can be done. I cannot remember a banning or suspension there.

A few months ago I posted a couple of images (not taken with a pentax) in response to what I viewed as a negative review of the Glasgow Transport Museum. I only did so to highlight the building and it's contents to a would be visitor from England. The images were deleted with an explanation(and a smiley) by the same administrator who'd made the negative remarks under the rule that only pentax images can be posted - frankly that's absurd and smacks of a 'head below the parapet' mentality. It certainly left a sour taste with me. The aloofness and high handed attitude of some of the admins is the reason I've decided to take no further part in this site.

I've also joined the EU site principally to find out what's going on there but unless there is a more positive view of pentax forums I can't see me staying there for long.

I'd appreciate if my membership on this site can be deleted as I do not now want to be associated with this site - nor want to be counted in it's stats.
Jamie
Last Edited by jamieallan on 05/07/2014 - 20:18

Mannesty

Link Posted 07/07/2014 - 14:37
johnriley wrote:
It's already sorted out, it doesn't really help very much to bring it up again.

Let's get back to the photography, which, in fact, we have already been doing.

You are disillusioned John, it's not sorted, and it may help enormously to bring it up again.

johnriley wrote:
Sometimes it's better to let it go, move on and post something about photography.

Or, Sometimes it's convenient to ignore it and it might go away. Post something about photography, just as long as it's Pentax related.

The one and only reason that so many members have joined another site is down to the moderation of of this one, no question.

I've been a contributor here for many years and the only thing that has got members backs up in my time here is deleted/locked threads with no explanation and hiding behind "confidentiality". That is just plain BS.

To set the record straight, according to AuraTodd, she WAS NOT given an explanation for the deletion of her thread until after I started the "Heartless" thread which precipitated the exodus of so many long term PU members.

It would serve the PU Team well to remember that its members make the site what it is, the moderation employed here destroys it and to reward posters with a permanent ban for speaking out is most definitely not the way to treat your membership.

There seems to be only two active moderators of this forum, one long term, the other more recent. It saddens me to see that the newer moderator has learned too much from the other. The western world has done much good work to remove dictators from power in so many countries around the world, yet a similar regime still rules here. Please don't view this as a political comment, it's not.

If only we could elect our moderators . . . .

Be under no illusion, this is not a photography site, it's a Pentax photography and equipment site to the exclusion of all else.

The PU members who have joined the .eu forum enjoy the freedom to chat about whatever they like and post their images from non-Pentax equipment.

To the members who have tried the .eu site and returned here, I returned once (twice now), nothing had changed. I'll not be back until somebody can convince me that big changes have been made.

Adios amigos, you know where to find me.
Peter E Smith

My flickr Photostream
Last Edited by Mannesty on 07/07/2014 - 14:49

johnriley

Link Posted 07/07/2014 - 16:49
ken was in the area today and we spent a pleasant day talking photography and dogs. Ken trains puppies destined to become guide dogs and brought his latest protégé around.

We saw your post earlier peter, and in our opinion you're now just trolling/flaming and trying to promote your own site, so it is now time for us to reluctantly close your account.
Best regards, John

spinno

Link Posted 07/07/2014 - 16:55
and that my friends is how it works....
I too was a "jumper" and have been around here trying to see the improvements that were promised...only they aren't ever going to happen.
I'm sorry but there appears to be little future here if people get banned for saying what Peter said.
Perhaps the guys at the magazine company/ imaging company should pay heed to what's happening here and marvel at what's going on
David

dpm

Link Posted 07/07/2014 - 17:13
So now are we not allowed to be members of more than one Forum?

Very Disappointing.

techno-terminator

Link Posted 07/07/2014 - 17:23
John,

reluctantly I'm entering .

I have to say that whilst I was missing last month, a lot of this stuff blew up - though not all . Traffic on here though, has gone down badly , and even more so since my return to the UK.

My reading is that folk are unhappy with some decisions that have been made.

Yes - it is a Pentax Site - and yes we should discuss Pentax gear but can't we also mention other marques ?

I actually had the temerity to post some pictures taken on a non-Pentax camera in NYC and they are still visible .

I'm really sorry to see how PUF has sunk to this level .
let the education continue

proud owner of a couple of cameras and a few bits and bobs

Me_again__Briefly

Link Posted 07/07/2014 - 17:32
johnriley wrote:
ken was in the area today and we spent a pleasant day talking photography and dogs. Ken trains puppies destined to become guide dogs and brought his latest protégé around.

Isn't that a bit off topic for a Pentax exclusive forum?
Quote:

We saw your post earlier peter, and in our opinion you're now just trolling/flaming and trying to promote your own site, so it is now time for us to reluctantly close your account.

John, quite frankly your opinion counts for little, if that's all you understood from my post it's a very sad day for the Pentax User Forum. How dare you refer to my post as trolling/flaming. In my opinion you've totally lost your grip on reality and if any account should be closed it should be yours. Between you and Ken you are destroying this community and It must not be allowed to continue.

I was saying what I felt, I was not, repeat not, promoting any other site, just stating how other forums tolerate diversification.

If you have any sense of decency and attach any value to my 9 year presence here, you will reactivate my account immediately.

And to correct another of your misunderstandings, PentaxDSLR is not my site, I'm just an ordinary member there, as I am at PentaxForums and Pentax World.

Peter Smith.
Last Edited by Me_again__Briefly on 07/07/2014 - 17:59

Prieni

Link Posted 07/07/2014 - 17:51
johnriley wrote:
ken was in the area today and we spent a pleasant day talking photography and dogs. Ken trains puppies destined to become guide dogs and brought his latest protégé around.

We saw your post earlier peter, and in our opinion you're now just trolling/flaming and trying to promote your own site, so it is now time for us to reluctantly close your account.

Yes, that's the spirit ruining this forum. I quit after "Timgate" a long time ago and recently started lurking again and participating in the weekly challenge. I have so hoped that the attitude of moderation might change for the better, your post shows that it's not. It's a pitty as what we had before it all went pear shaped was excellent.

You might as well close all of the accounts. Very sad, indeed.
How inappropriate to call this planet earth when it is quite clearly Ocean. - Arthur C. Clarke
Prieni's PPG page

Blythman

Link Posted 07/07/2014 - 17:56
On its knees ......... its sad

Have the wider team the will to drive through change, or will it drift on until sponsors/advertisers don't see a return and withdraw, leading to a slow death (no need to answer, I'm just thinking aloud)
Alan


PPG
Flickr

johnriley

Link Posted 07/07/2014 - 18:14
There are two distinct things going on here. Those with genuine opinions offered with helpfulness in mind are very welcome. Those wanting to troll are not. Telling the difference is more than just this thread.

We've already said that we're looking at various points raised over the next couple of weeks, so rational argument is always the best way forwards. That doesn't include flaming to cause further dissatisfaction.

Where are the genuine, good ideas? These are being sifted through, so we'll all have to wait for that and see what can be put into place. Just pushing this argument to the top of the forum with the same comments won't help that process.
Best regards, John
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