Weekly Competition # 60

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Father Ted

Link Posted 01/09/2008 - 15:30
George Lazarette wrote:
I would prefer to keep the competition in the gallery section, so as to have the advantages of direct uploading and comments under photos.

But somehow we have to make it work, and that I think should be the focus.

G

I, too, like this format and like to have the comments with the pictures. But I really do think it should be stressed that as part of judging, comments are necessary.

I have no mis-conceptions of my skills and know I'm not likely to be judging any time soon, and I appreciate these comments must be time consuming. But the only reason I enter is for those comments. They are a really useful tool for a novice like me to improve my game, as-it-were.
Getting there! Thanks to you guys

Pentax K10d, *istDL, Kit lens ( 18-55mm ), 50mm f1.7 lens, Tamron 70-300mm lens, Prinzflex 70-162 manual lens, Various old flashes.

Hyram

Link Posted 01/09/2008 - 15:42
A judge could comment below each competition photograph in the forum by clicking on the "Quote this post" for each photograph.

This would be slightly more long winded, but probably no worse than what you have to do under the Competition Section in the Gallery.
Hyram

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davidburleson

Link Posted 01/09/2008 - 15:45
What if the judge and everyone else was to discuss the competition on the competition's main page (where you see all the entries). Its much like a forum thread, but you have all the photos at the top to view as well. If anyone wishes to comment within a photo they can, but anything related to the competition as a whole could be stated on the competition's page.

Much like ...

https://www.pentaxuser.com/competitions/Weekly-Competition--59-Contrast-7
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Last Edited by davidburleson on 01/09/2008 - 15:46

Father Ted

Link Posted 01/09/2008 - 16:00
I preferred the format where the judge would add his / her comments directly to the photo, as here..

https://www.pentaxuser.com/photo/comp-3/Growing-up-too-quickly-614
Getting there! Thanks to you guys

Pentax K10d, *istDL, Kit lens ( 18-55mm ), 50mm f1.7 lens, Tamron 70-300mm lens, Prinzflex 70-162 manual lens, Various old flashes.

Malo1961

Link Posted 01/09/2008 - 16:03
George Lazarette wrote:
Nimitz wrote:
It is just to sad to log in monday morning to find the competition ended with no result (comments) and close to 15-20 entries.....

In fairness, this is about educating the judges.

G

Not so long ago I had a remark: "if you don't want to judge, don't enter the competition. It was suggested as a unwritten rule, in the same spirit as the other unwritten rules. Like : the judge report is final, and not to be discussed afterwards, no editing/changing of pictures after submitting.

How do we educate the judges? If there are no rules to go by? The way things are going now (Newbies who only enter the competition,without being active on the forum and only pronounce the winner without any form of C & C) I see this competition dying a soft death. Is that what we want? For me it is clear, and I have decided to follow the same path as Lilly did. From now on I won't enter the competition until we have the guarantee that at least every entrie gets a few words in the form of some C & C from the judge. Please remember all the efforts being taken by the judges in the first 50 plus competition rounds.

And as stated before: Personal circumstances or not being able to write in understandable (not faultless)English, could be the only reasons to be excused.

Best regards,
Martin.
Best regards,

Martin.


Curious about my photography?? Just Follow the Light.

Keen2Learn

Link Posted 01/09/2008 - 17:26
Malo1961 wrote:

Not so long ago I had a remark: "if you don't want to judge, don't enter the competition. It was suggested as a unwritten rule, in the same spirit as the other unwritten rules.

What gives anyone the right to say who can enter a photo competition?
Is a competition only for competent amateur photographers who have been around for a while? That would be grossly unfair and discriminative.
Malo1961 wrote:

How do we educate the judges? If there are no rules to go by? The way things are going now (Newbies who only enter the competition,without being active on the forum and only pronounce the winner without any form of C & C) I see this competition dying a soft death. Is that what we want? For me it is clear, and I have decided to follow the same path as Lilly did. From now on I won't enter the competition until we have the guarantee that at least every entrie gets a few words in the form of some C & C from the judge.

Why can't everyone add their C+C ?
Why does the winner of the competion have to be the judge too?
Why can't the winner just chose the subject of the next competition and leave the judging to others: For example by creating a poll where all members can vote. (What I feel is the best photograph may not be what everyone would consider to be a winner, a poll will give each member one vote. most votes = winner).
Just my though without discriminating against newbies to photography (like myself)



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Mongoose

Link Posted 01/09/2008 - 17:37
Keen2Learn wrote:
Malo1961 wrote:

Not so long ago I had a remark: "if you don't want to judge, don't enter the competition. It was suggested as a unwritten rule, in the same spirit as the other unwritten rules.

What gives anyone the right to say who can enter a photo competition?
Is a competition only for competent amateur photographers who have been around for a while? That would be grossly unfair and discriminative.

the rule is, the winner of this weeks comp sets the subject and does the judging next week. One of the best ways to learn about photography is to critically examine others work and decide what you like and dislike about it. Whatever knowledge I have (admittedly megre) is gained from looking at others work on forums like this and giving honest feedback (which it now occurs to me I haven't done for a while!).

There's nothing at stake save the honour of winning, so ultimately it doesn't matter a jot if no one agrees with the judge. The important thing about the weekly comp is that the entrants and the judge all get something out of the experience, and we all get to see 20 or 30 takes on the suggested subject.
you don't have to be mad to post here



but it does help

George Lazarette

Link Posted 01/09/2008 - 17:56
Keen2Learn wrote:
Malo1961 wrote:

Not so long ago I had a remark: "if you don't want to judge, don't enter the competition. It was suggested as a unwritten rule, in the same spirit as the other unwritten rules.

What gives anyone the right to say who can enter a photo competition?

You are one of the newbies referred to, who (through ignorance of the rules, or idleness) are in danger of wrecking a proven system.

The "right" you refer to is a group decision, arrived at by consensus, and has proven to work well.

Quote:
Is a competition only for competent amateur photographers who have been around for a while? That would be grossly unfair and discriminative.

Unfair? What nonsense. If those are the rules of the competition, then those are the rules, and tough if you don't like it. Enter a different one.

But in fact you have jumped to the wrong conclusion. The competition is open to all, with the proviso that if you win, you have to judge the competition and set the next one.

Quote:
Why can't everyone add their C+C ?

They can, after the judging.

Quote:
Why does the winner of the competion have to be the judge too?

Why does the sun rise in the East? It just does. As stated earlier, the competition has evolved over time, by consensus, and works well.

Quote:
Why can't the winner just chose the subject of the next competition and leave the judging to others: For example by creating a poll where all members can vote. (What I feel is the best photograph may not be what everyone would consider to be a winner, a poll will give each member one vote. most votes = winner).
Just my though without discriminating against newbies to photography (like myself)

Getting bored, now. There is nothing wrong with the existing competition. We just need to be sure that people know what is expected, and we need the software to work.

G
Keywords: Charming, polite, and generally agreeable.

Malo1961

Link Posted 01/09/2008 - 18:02
Keen2Learn wrote:
Malo1961 wrote:

Not so long ago I had a remark: "if you don't want to judge, don't enter the competition. It was suggested as a unwritten rule, in the same spirit as the other unwritten rules.

What gives anyone the right to say who can enter a photo competition?
Is a competition only for competent amateur photographers who have been around for a while? That would be grossly unfair and discriminative.
Malo1961 wrote:

How do we educate the judges? If there are no rules to go by? The way things are going now (Newbies who only enter the competition,without being active on the forum and only pronounce the winner without any form of C & C) I see this competition dying a soft death. Is that what we want? For me it is clear, and I have decided to follow the same path as Lilly did. From now on I won't enter the competition until we have the guarantee that at least every entrie gets a few words in the form of some C & C from the judge.

Why can't everyone add their C+C ?
Why does the winner of the competion have to be the judge too?
Why can't the winner just chose the subject of the next competition and leave the judging to others: For example by creating a poll where all members can vote. (What I feel is the best photograph may not be what everyone would consider to be a winner, a poll will give each member one vote. most votes = winner).
Just my though without discriminating against newbies to photography (like myself)

For what its worth, i don't consider you a newbie. Not after 139 postings. Neither do I consider others a newbie who take the time and effort to post here. If thats not clear with you, well..........
And for all the other points you raise, just open a thread with your suggestions.
And lets see how these are received.

Basically Mongoose summarized the idea behind these competitions very well.
And if you took the time to scroll through the first 54 rounds, you would know what I mean.

And regarding your last remark?
Quote:
Just my though without discriminating against newbies to photography (like myself)

I hope you don't mind if I dismiss myself from answering to such a offensive accusation.

Best regards,

Martin.
Best regards,

Martin.


Curious about my photography?? Just Follow the Light.

johnriley

Link Posted 01/09/2008 - 18:26
Moves are afoot to make it work, please be patient and see what happens next.
Best regards, John

ChrisA

Link Posted 01/09/2008 - 18:44
Keen2Learn wrote:
Just my thought without discriminating against newbies to photography (like myself)

For heavens sake.

Will you please stop with this ridiculous false modesty.

You've won one of the weekly competitions, so you've earned your right to judge. IIRC, you've posted a few other pictures that have been pretty good.

Do you think someone should win the 100m if they've been training for longer, even if they can't run as fast? Of course not.

Competitions do not discriminate on the grounds of experience, they discriminate on the grounds of ability, which is how it should be.

Whether you think you have the former, you clearly have the latter. So get over it and go out and take some more good pictures.

And if you win another comp, judge that too, and don't hold back so much next time. Remember, we all value hearing why people like or don't like photos, and we value what you might have to say as well.
.
Pentax K-3, DA18-135, DA35 F2.4, DA17-70, DA55-300, FA28-200, A50 F1.7, A100 F4 Macro, A400 F5.6, Sigma 10-20 EXDC, 50-500 F4.5-6.3 APO DG OS Samsung flash SEF-54PZF(x2)
.

George Lazarette

Link Posted 01/09/2008 - 18:55
I think it was Lilly who pioneered the idea (on the old forum) of writing her comments on each picture as they came in (using a WP prog.), so that at the end all she had to do was comment on the last-minute entries, declare the winners, and paste the whole thing into a message.

The result was that the results were on-line very quickly.

This will be rather more work if one has to paste comments separately under thirty or more different pictures.

Would it be possible to hide the comments from everybody except the judge, until the judge was finished with judging? At that point he/she could press a button, and the comments would appear. This would enable comments to be added whenever the judge chose, thus making the task at the end more manageable.

G
Keywords: Charming, polite, and generally agreeable.

ChrisA

Link Posted 01/09/2008 - 19:02
George Lazarette wrote:
I think it was Lilly who pioneered the idea (on the old forum) of writing her comments on each picture as they came in (using a WP prog.), so that at the end all she had to do was comment on the last-minute entries, declare the winners, and paste the whole thing into a message.

This was exactly how I did mine too. I'd never judged a photo competition before, and like K2L, I took on the task with some trepidation.

I found I changed my view of photos quite a lot as the entries came in, and refined the way I articulated what I thought quite a few times.

It's not an easy task, but I think it's tremendously beneficial - especially if, like me, it's an exercise that's new.

If you take the trouble, it forces you to think, and if, like me, you really are keen to learn, that kind of thinking is very helpful.
.
Pentax K-3, DA18-135, DA35 F2.4, DA17-70, DA55-300, FA28-200, A50 F1.7, A100 F4 Macro, A400 F5.6, Sigma 10-20 EXDC, 50-500 F4.5-6.3 APO DG OS Samsung flash SEF-54PZF(x2)
.

Malo1961

Link Posted 01/09/2008 - 19:03
George Lazarette wrote:
I think it was Lilly who pioneered the idea (on the old forum) of writing her comments on each picture as they came in (using a WP prog.), so that at the end all she had to do was comment on the last-minute entries, declare the winners, and paste the whole thing into a message.

The result was that the results were on-line very quickly.

This will be rather more work if one has to paste comments separately under thirty or more different pictures.

Would it be possible to hide the comments from everybody except the judge, until the judge was finished with judging? At that point he/she could press a button, and the comments would appear. This would enable comments to be added whenever the judge chose, thus making the task at the end more manageable.

G

Thats probably one of the best ideas I saw regarding the workability of judging new style.

Martin.
Best regards,

Martin.


Curious about my photography?? Just Follow the Light.

johnriley

Link Posted 01/09/2008 - 19:57
Judging "new-style" is actually easier than before because the picture is right there without scrolling and you can put the comments underneath it.

However, it does take a bit of time and anyone who enters the competitions should really be prepared to win and prepared to do the task of judging. Just to be fair to everyone who puts the effort in.

It's only been a problem recently, so I'll be posting some new guidlines soon, but first we have to check out any alterations to the gallery so that we all know what to do.
Best regards, John
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