Sorry guys ☹️


JForeigner

Link Posted 23/10/2018 - 07:46
Algernon wrote:
Most of the Great Photographers only did Landscapes...... What's wrong with that

Wonder if Mercedes will ever build a motorbike
--

Looks as if they do.

Does this count?

https://motorbikewriter.com/mercedes-amg-unveils-solarbeam-f3/

Gary
Armed with a K3, some M, A, FA, DA, and star lens. With an eye open for "just one more lens".

My PPG link

Algernon

Link Posted 23/10/2018 - 09:10
In a similar way to John Player Special Cigarettes racing cars I suppose it does

Will pigs ever fly ? ........... Pics of a Danepak logo on a plane not acceptable
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Half Man... Half Pentax ... Half Cucumber

Pentax K-1 + K-5 and some other stuff

Algi
Last Edited by Algernon on 23/10/2018 - 09:11

Don

Link Posted 23/10/2018 - 13:31
JAK wrote:
Quote:
Careful, that's a slippery slope to infer some users aren't real photographers...

I am of the opinion that mirrorless cameras take over the process. I can't see why anyone would prefer them!

weird but I shoot mostly in manual for video and stills but... BUT... when the times happen, and they do happen, that things unfold to rapidly for a human to keep up, I expect the camera to to perform on auto faster than I can on manual... and still produce pro results.

My sony nx80 has one of the fastest and most accurate AF I've ever seen... I would even go so far as to suggest it would tie or beat any pentax for af speed and accuracy in good light and destroy my k3 in low light. I often go into the menu system and set the the AF to the slowest setting possible, and set it to spot af on the touch screen so I and do a focus pull between two points and have a smooth rack focus... which a two man crew could do just as easily and just as accurately on manual... but.. they'd need an expensive cinema lens, pull stops and a couple tries to nail the same shot I can do in seconds with AF....

it's not always about how fast the af works but how fast (and expensive) the WORKFLOW is.
Fired many shots. Didn't kill anything.

Algernon

Link Posted 23/10/2018 - 13:49
You really need advice from a top expert video salesman to get exactly the camera that suits you best Don. Luckily we have such shops and professionals in the UK.... so we are spoiled by the excellent service/advice we receive.

https://youtu.be/lLubV-gH584?t=4

-
Half Man... Half Pentax ... Half Cucumber

Pentax K-1 + K-5 and some other stuff

Algi
Last Edited by Algernon on 23/10/2018 - 13:56

JAK

Link Posted 23/10/2018 - 14:06
Don wrote:
JAK wrote:
Quote:
Careful, that's a slippery slope to infer some users aren't real photographers...

I am of the opinion that mirrorless cameras take over the process. I can't see why anyone would prefer them!

weird but I shoot mostly in manual for video and stills but... BUT... when the times happen, and they do happen, that things unfold to rapidly for a human to keep up, I expect the camera to to perform on auto faster than I can on manual... and still produce pro results.

My sony nx80 has one of the fastest and most accurate AF I've ever seen... I would even go so far as to suggest it would tie or beat any pentax for af speed and accuracy in good light and destroy my k3 in low light. I often go into the menu system and set the the AF to the slowest setting possible, and set it to spot af on the touch screen so I and do a focus pull between two points and have a smooth rack focus... which a two man crew could do just as easily and just as accurately on manual... but.. they'd need an expensive cinema lens, pull stops and a couple tries to nail the same shot I can do in seconds with AF....

it's not always about how fast the af works but how fast (and expensive) the WORKFLOW is.

You and Richard seem to have a need for something not provided for in optical TTL cameras and if they exist I'm sure you'd both have one already. I'm sure in time Pentax will improve liveview which may go some way to offer what you want but that isn't the native format for those cameras. All the mirrorless offering Pentax have ever produced are now obsolete. Doesn't that say something? Whether you like it or not it would seem they weren't supported in the way their DSLRs have been otherwise I'm sure they'd have changed direction to build on them which it would seem leaves you both out on a limb as far as Pentax cameras are concerned. Others who are quite happy with them as they are use them too you know. If the R&D to produce the cameras you require made the new offerings much dearer perhaps they'd price themselves out of a market they don't even want to be in given their limited appeal. If you want a mirrorless, just go and buy one, no one's stopping you.
John K
Last Edited by JAK on 23/10/2018 - 14:16

Don

Link Posted 23/10/2018 - 14:31
Algernon wrote:
You really need advice from a top expert video salesman to get exactly the camera that suits you best Don. Luckily we have such shops and professionals in the UK.... so we are spoiled by the excellent service/advice we receive.

https://youtu.be/lLubV-gH584?t=4

-

you seem to be completely oblivious or perhaps disingenuous to what I've been saying... I already have the pro video cameras and just bought the mirrorless cameras which is how SONY got the last ten grand I spent on equipment instead of pentax... I'm not buying TWO sets of pro lenses for TWO systems....the lack of one decent video spec'd dslr is why Pentax is losing a long time loyal customer.
I buy ONE GMaster 70-200 2.8 and I can use it on a pro cinema cam, a prosumer video cam, a mirrorless that gives me everything from pro stills to pro video... same lens... if pentax had simply added 4k video to any camera body, those sales would have been to pentax for pro glass and a new body...

those who fail to realize Pentax needs my money more than Sony can keep trying to be arrogant Pr!@ks about it, but losing market share to a company like sony isn't going to help Pentax stay in business, and if they go out of business you'll eventually find yourself having to switch brands too...
personally, I'd be worried about that if I was about to drop thousands on a new camera or lens from a manufacturer that's losing life time loyal customers to a juggernaught like sony... The a7III's are backordered even sony is struggling to keep up with demand... and they're about to release new models..some at lower price points...

don't tempt me to go off on a rant here, getting banned from a Pentax forum isn't going to bother me, since I'm not buying anything pentax in the future... I can live without pentax.

it wouldn't have been too much trouble to mix a few Pentax D-slr video shots into a workflow if the camera had the feature... but switching seems to be the only option... which is too bad. I would have bought more pentax rather than switching.
Fired many shots. Didn't kill anything.
Last Edited by Don on 23/10/2018 - 14:39

Algernon

Link Posted 23/10/2018 - 15:18
There's an interview on the US forum from a few years back with a Pentax Exec. in which he stated that Pentax weren't a video company. Video on a DSLR seems to be just a marketing gimmick for some manufactures. It doesn't seem to work. The fashion tog I linked to in this thread moved to four Nikons. It now seems the video doesn't suit him and he's gone to Fuji for video.

The latest Fujifilm X-T3 is equal to the only other decent video DSLR Panasonic GH5, but still hasn't got things that Richard moans and thinks that a non video Pentax should have. From the review below "Lack of in-body stabilization makes it a tripod or gimbal camera." Pentax DSLR's are too big for most gimbals which will be another reason they won't bother too much with video.

It hasn't got eye AF "The X-T3's video autofocus is essentially a simplified version of its stills system. The you can choose between continuous AF and single AF, and you have the choice of the camera selecting the subject or you manually selecting from 91 AF areas spread across the frame. Face Detection works on top of this, but faces are the only type of subject the camera will attempt to track around the scene."

https://www.dpreview.com/reviews/fujifilm-x-t3/10


--
Half Man... Half Pentax ... Half Cucumber

Pentax K-1 + K-5 and some other stuff

Algi
Last Edited by Algernon on 23/10/2018 - 15:21

Don

Link Posted 23/10/2018 - 15:19
apologies for being rude...bottom line I had to choose..
FF pentax with no video and three very expensive pro lenses...
or
A sony FF mirrorless with three very expensive pro lenses...

and I am sad to leave Pentax in fact.. I'm A little angry at them for making me choose and switch.
oh well. Cest' La Vie.
Fired many shots. Didn't kill anything.

Algernon

Link Posted 23/10/2018 - 15:45
No problem Don
Half Man... Half Pentax ... Half Cucumber

Pentax K-1 + K-5 and some other stuff

Algi

JAK

Link Posted 23/10/2018 - 18:07
If Pentax were to become a video company it sounds as if they'd have the custom of Don and Richard. But probably not anybody else!
I doubt Pentax could compete with Sony for the camera they want. Sony are basically an electronics company and it is simpler for them to not bother with TTL viewfinder systems. If someone wants a TTL viewfinder camera I believe I'm right thinking Sony isn't really on the shopping list to spend one's thousands.
As with cars, one buys the make and model that suits at the time. It might not be the same brand every time, however a firm isn't going to go bust because two people decide to change brands for a feature the previous brand didn't offer. What an arrogant thought.
One has to wonder why they bought into a system that didn't offer the features they wanted. A mistake perhaps, or lack of research?
John K

McGregNi

Link Posted 23/10/2018 - 19:23
It looks like the heart of the argument comes down to whether a person perceives the DSLR to be the ultimate versatile, utilitarian imaging and recording device. It certainly is for photographs .....I just have to think of the extraordinary range of lens types, flash equipment and extension tubes that regularly get attached to my K7 from a relatively modest kit pack. And all of that at a fairly extraordinary budget ...( ie low).

So yes, the utility and value of such multi-purpose use is amazing. I think those wanting to add the high end video capabilities as well are just wishing that the same utility could be extended their way, and they are frustrated that they see enabling that as a fairly easy route, building on the existing core technology in the top camera models we already have

So the frustration is not about the cameras being unsuited to video in fundamentals, but rather it is the unrealised potential that is latent there, but not being tapped into.

Imagine how I might feel if they released a camera with such great high ISO performance (that was it's main purpose), that they decided to have no flash or even a hotshoe, so crippling it for flash. That may be the same way those looking for video features see the situation.
My Guides to the Pentax Digital Camera Flash Lighting System : Download here from the PentaxForums Homepage Article .... link
Pentax K7 with BG-4 Grip / Samyang 14mm f2.8 ED AS IF UMC / DA18-55mm f3.5-5.6 AL WR / SMC A28mm f2.8 / D FA 28-105mm / SMC F35-70 f3.5-4.5 / SMC A50mm f1.7 / Tamron AF70-300mm f4-5.6 Di LD macro / SMC M75-150mm f4.0 / Tamron Adaptall (CT-135) 135mm f2.8 / Asahi Takumar-A 2X tele-converter / Pentax AF-540FGZ (I & II) Flashes / Cactus RF60/X Flashes & V6/V6II Transceiver
Last Edited by McGregNi on 23/10/2018 - 19:28

Mike-P

Link Posted 23/10/2018 - 20:11
McGregNi wrote:
It looks like the heart of the argument .....

And this is what every single thread like this becomes and there is no reason for it. You want to change systems, great ... sell up and move on, there is no need to make a massive post about why you are doing it but at the same time the users that are happy with their cameras don't have to defend Pentax as if their life depended on it. Everyone is entitled to do with their own money what they wish, it makes not a jot of difference to anyone here.

Oh and just out of interest, my little Canon M5 has a exposure compensation dial right next to the shutter button, it's far easier to get to than the K-3II
. My Flickr

richandfleur

Link Posted 23/10/2018 - 21:37
Algernon wrote:
Richard moans

Again, please try and keep it civil.

JAK wrote:
a firm isn't going to go bust because two people decide to change brands for a feature the previous brand didn't offer. What an arrogant thought.

It would be an arrogant thought, if one was to say, think or believe it. For the record I'm certainly not, so please don't imply that I am.

JAK wrote:
One has to wonder why they bought into a system that didn't offer the features they wanted. A mistake perhaps, or lack of research?

I purchased my first video capable Pentax (K-30) back around 2012, and the specs were competitive at the time, just like they were with the K-5 before it. The K-30 introduced focus peaking in video mode for example, and at the time there was no indication that this would actually be the end of Pentax's video development. To suggest that I lacked research because I didn't check out an announcement that was made roughly 5 years later seems a bit off?

McGregNi wrote:
I think those wanting to add the high end video capabilities as well are just wishing that the same utility could be extended their way, and they are frustrated that they see enabling that as a fairly easy route, building on the existing core technology in the top camera models we already have

So the frustration is not about the cameras being unsuited to video in fundamentals, but rather it is the unrealised potential that is latent there, but not being tapped into.

As always a voice of clarity and reason. Spot on summary.

The K-5 was the last Pentax to have mechanical stabilisation in video mode, and people didn't complain that it having this feature made the still capability somehow poorer. As with anything, you don't have to use it, but if it's included I'd like to see it work fairly well. The current software stabilisation attempt 'Movie SR' is downright nasty at times. I'd personally like to see the video offering improved to say 2017 spec levels, and every other manufacturer has progressively improved on their video capabilities.

Video is just one aspect of why someone might want to move to a mirrorless format camera, so let's not make the conversation solely around video. I understand a of Pentax users don't use this feature of their cameras, so I wouldn't limit discussion to that alone. Again I prefer an optical viewfinder for photos, and am happy with video only being on the rear screen, so personally my comments aren't about mirrorless per se, and more about some features I'd like to see improved on Pentax DSLRs. Improved tracking AF seems a common wish amongst Pentax users, so I don't think it's that unusual a request really.

JAK wrote:
All the mirrorless offering Pentax have ever produced are now obsolete. Doesn't that say something?

It tells me you can't just take a DSLR, strip out the optical viewfinder and do nothing else. Comments I've seen from people who have moved to mirrorless seem to be because of weight, tracking focus abilities and improved video. The K-01 offered little in these areas and didn't offer a viewfinder other than the rear screen, so I couldn't see the appeal of it and I'm not surprised it failed. Lessons to be learnt there for sure if Pentax ever opts to enter the mirrorless market.

Mike-P wrote:
McGregNi wrote:
It looks like the heart of the argument .....

And this is what every single thread like this becomes and there is no reason for it.

Agreed.

This thread is about someone leaving to a different style of camera, and is one of a few that have appeared in the last week. The common thread (forum pun) is users moving to a different style of camera that they hope will provide them features and a package that better suits their needs. They've also indicated that they wanted to stay with Pentax, but Pentax weren't offering an equivalent which would have allowed them to stay.

I don't know why a discussion around this has to invoke such emotion, and degenerate into name calling (eg a troll, moaning, not a real photographer if it doesn't have an optical viewfinder, arrogant etc). That seems pretty poor form.
Last Edited by richandfleur on 23/10/2018 - 21:50

JAK

Link Posted 23/10/2018 - 21:39
Mike-P wrote:
Oh and just out of interest, my little Canon M5 has a exposure compensation dial right next to the shutter button, it's far easier to get to than the K-3II

Easier than pressing the EV compensation button right next to the shutter release and turning the read dial? It must be fantastic then! But does it do Rich's & Don's 4K video? If not its useless!
John K
Last Edited by JAK on 23/10/2018 - 21:52

Mike-P

Link Posted 23/10/2018 - 22:02
JAK wrote:
Easier than pressing the EV compensation button right next to the shutter release and turning the read dial? It must be fantastic then! But does it do Rich's & Don's 4K video? If not its useless!

Yes because I don't have to press a button first.

As for video no, I could however have bought the M50 for less money if I wanted 4K but that doesn't bother me as I don't have a 4K tv to watch it on however that doesn't mean I am going to rip them to shreds because they want it.
. My Flickr
Last Edited by Mike-P on 23/10/2018 - 22:03
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