Sorry guys ☹️


JAK

Link Posted 22/10/2018 - 15:34
We've seen quote a few forum members circling round the brands who seem unable to settle on anything. That must be an expensive course to take.
John K

Algernon

Link Posted 22/10/2018 - 16:02
Stub seems to forget that the K-1 was produced after a lot of pressure from the US forum for a camera on which they could use their EXISTING FF LENSES...... No one asked for a new range of lenses.
Half Man... Half Pentax ... Half Cucumber

Pentax K-1 + K-5 and some other stuff

Algi

Algernon

Link Posted 22/10/2018 - 16:28
This is the funniest thing I've ever seen

A fashion photographer LINK made his name shooting with Pentax for both stills and video. Then he kicked off on about how bad the AF was and moved to Nikon. His wife didn't like the Nikon video so continued with Pentax

Now he takes nearly all his shots..... OUT OF FOCUS (on the link above at least) and whoever does the videos seems to use FUJI and he also has FUJI. He's written to Nikon complaining about the Z's and despite being a top pro he doesn't seem to be on 1st cousin terms with them. LINK

More on Depressing Review...
https://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/4314141

A lot of moaning Pentaxians seem to think that Canikon will beat a path to their door if they have the slightest problem.
--
Half Man... Half Pentax ... Half Cucumber

Pentax K-1 + K-5 and some other stuff

Algi
Last Edited by Algernon on 22/10/2018 - 16:39

Mike-P

Link Posted 22/10/2018 - 16:34
Quote:
I have 2 systems…Nikon and Fuji for now…NIKON, GOOGLE my name…I am in the Fashion Biz and have a rather high profile.

And at that I stopped reading .... What a total arse.
. My Flickr

Gwyn

Link Posted 22/10/2018 - 19:44
Ben used to post on this forum and was a Pentax Professional.

Algernon

Link Posted 22/10/2018 - 20:27
He said a lot of nasty stuff about Pentax when he left so lets hope he never comes back.

--
Half Man... Half Pentax ... Half Cucumber

Pentax K-1 + K-5 and some other stuff

Algi

richandfleur

Link Posted 22/10/2018 - 22:04
RobL wrote:
richandfleur wrote:
No need to apologise. Sony is attracting customers from lots of DSLR companies because the’re innovating and are very competitively priced.

This situation is cropping up more and more and the content is usually very similar. People want to stay with Pentax, they really do, but Pentax has not been delivering in areas people want.

That’s not entirely fair, You mean what some people want.

Whoops, you are quite right, that's poor wording on my part.
Yes to be clear, the stories I'm reading show users who are leaving are quite conflicted, in that they want to stay with Pentax, but Pentax has not been developing in areas that are important to them, hence the change. That's not to say Pentax hasn't been delivering for all Pentax users, as there are still many who are fully happy with their products. There are however some customers who are choosing to move elsewhere, and this is not just a Pentax DSLR thing as it affects the likes of Canikon DSLR companies as well.

Algernon wrote:
In answer to richandfleur (AKA a troll)

Please don't go there, let's keep the discussion civil.
This site is called Pentax User, and I use Pentax cameras too.

johnha wrote:

Everybody seems to want superb video, but how are they using it? Video blogging is one application, but what are the others, home movies? I'm genuinely interested in those from this forum who have moved away for better video - what are you doing with it?

I make little travel and family videos like these:
https://youtu.be/Fd-misrx3kM
https://youtu.be/1pbOdTkFrSU

Video wise, the bottom line is my Pentax is excellent for stills (I'm just lacking eye AF and decent tracking for example) but the video offering hasn't really been touched in over 5 years now. I'd like to see the video offering improved, so that I can achieve a high IQ (like we currently can in stills) and use all my same lenses with the ergonomics and rugged/weather sealed benefits of the Pentax system. This isn't a video only conversation, but specifically I'd like to see the offering updated to at least say 2017 levels, with increased bitrate, focus peaking that works during video capture and the return of mechanical sensor stabilisation.

johnha wrote:

The 645Z was the first medium format camera ever to do video - but the nay sayers reported it as the usual mediocre Pentax video offering - some people are never satisfied.

To be fair the video quality on that just didn't live up to the expectation. It felt very much like a token add on looking for a PR angle of 'First MF with video'.
For example, these guys gave it a very fair review, and were ultimately disappointed. https://youtu.be/4oT-fnHHTFs


I'm not interested in Mirrorless for it's reduced size (you're only saving some of the mirrorbox distance) but the technology in that style of camera is developing much faster, and in areas that I'm interested in. Eye AF really appeals to me, as does tracking AF for my kids triathlon like events. Like others, I'd love to see these developments in a Pentax, and I'm not picky about which format it's delivered in (be that DSLR or Mirrorless), just that it is delivered.
Last Edited by richandfleur on 22/10/2018 - 22:04

johnha

Link Posted 22/10/2018 - 22:35
I stumbled across the AP review of the Z7 - didn't bother reading it but did look at the bit about the F lens mount adapter. Apparently it can't AF all lenses as it has no screw-drive connector, Nikon's solution gained the high praise by the reviewer stating "I found this gave one of the best manual-focus experiences of any mirrorless camera."

High praise indeed - what is this mysterious process: "In this case the camera will show a digital rangefinder display in the viewfinder, with left and right arrows indicating which way to turn the focus ring."

Umm, sounds fab, but I can't help remembering reading about and using cameras that have already done this... the MEF link and the SFX(n) used the same display.
PPG Flickr

JAK

Link Posted 22/10/2018 - 22:45
Quote:
Eye AF really appeals to me, as does tracking AF for my kids triathlon like events. Like others, I'd love to see these developments in a Pentax

Trouble with that is, if the image is going directly to a fresnel screen providing for a true viewfinder optical image rather than a video screen, the photographer is expected to be able to time the shot rather than the electronics. The camera's electronics aren't actually able to see the image when the mirror and focussing screen get in the way.
Do you want a camera that takes the photos itself, or do you want to take them? That's the subtle difference.
A real photographer wants complete control over the image and not rely on a hit or miss automatic electronic system that requires delving into a myriad of menus to set it up ready (by which time the intended subject may well have gone away.) I suspect that's why some return to Pentax after not getting the shots they wanted with a totally electronic system.
It can take quite some time to adjust the exposure compensation on many electronic offerings having to hunt for the setting in a menu option (if you can even find it.) Not what you want on a dark, wet , windy evening in a camera without WR.
If anyone's thinking of swapping systems, look long and hard at the method of fully controlling the camera, not just the headline specs!
John K
Last Edited by JAK on 22/10/2018 - 23:03

johnha

Link Posted 22/10/2018 - 23:00
Don wrote:
1) I have clients that want stills and video... video pays more in terms of wages per hour for completed work.
2) Corporate gigs and events ALWAYS want video and if they have to choose between the two, video always seems to win... (everybody's got cell phones to snap stills with but no one seems to get decent video with cell phones).
3) I will often make and use videos for self promotion (even if its a video of a photoshoot) or movie trailers or pitches when applying for financing and grants...

that is how I use video... sure I might not use a RED came or Sony Venice to shoot the trailer or pitch, but the video must look good so I can get the budget approved to rent the cinema cams to make the real project and the trailer has to be at least compelling enough that they hand the $80,000.00 cameras to do the job.

Thanks Don, I can see why you need great video production and why you shoudn't wait (then again it sounds like you'd need something more specialised).

richandfleur wrote:
I make little travel and family videos like these:
https://youtu.be/Fd-misrx3kM
https://youtu.be/1pbOdTkFrSU

Excellent work, vibrant and very imaginative use of video & stills - thanks for sharing. I've tried video and realised I'm rubbish at it (at work we leave our video production to the professionals).
PPG Flickr

richandfleur

Link Posted 22/10/2018 - 23:29
JAK wrote:
Do you want a camera that takes the photos itself, or do you want to take them? That's the subtle difference.
A real photographer wants

Careful, that's a slippery slope to infer some users aren't real photographers...

I'm prepared to hand control of certain aspects over to the camera. I suspect many do already when using semi automatic modes such as Av/TV/TAv etc, whereby I'm letting the camera control the exposure based on it's reading at a specific time.

With regards to eye AF I'm fully prepared to let the camera handle the continuous focusing on the eye for portraits. I've had many narrow depth of field portraits come out with eyebrows in focus and eyes not, because I moved after focus was locked, they moved, focus was on the eyebrow all along, or any other such cause. I don't see this as suddenly I'm not being a real photographer. Sure I can up my game, and install a more reliable setup like a tripod and seat etc to help minimise this, but the technology to assist me does exist now, in some brands.

Eye AF is an aspect I'd like to see on my Pentax cameras. I don't see this as a mirrorless / DSLR debate personally, just a technology feature discussion, unless this type of development is only available on one format and not on another.

I agree there is a time lag when using an EVF, although this is minimal on the newest models. I personally prefer an optical viewfinder, but seeing exactly what the sensor sees has it's benefits also. There are several instances where I already use my Pentax DSLR in 'mirrorless mode' anyway, such as landscapes and night long exposure photos. My preference would be to keep my Pentax gear, and it's optical viewfinder, but have Pentax up their video game to at least 2017 levels please, and hopefully do something to improve the tracking AF capabilities.

JAK

Link Posted 22/10/2018 - 23:43
Quote:
Careful, that's a slippery slope to infer some users aren't real photographers...

I am of the opinion that mirrorless cameras take over the process. I can't see why anyone would prefer them!
John K

pschlute

Link Posted 22/10/2018 - 23:47
richandfleur wrote:


I'm prepared to hand control of certain aspects over to the camera. I suspect many do already when using semi automatic modes such as Av/TV/TAv etc, whereby I'm letting the camera control the exposure based on it's reading at a specific time.


Well that is only true to a degree. I use Av and TAv a lot, but don't feel i am handing exposure control over to the camera entirely. When in these modes my first few shots are always viewed with the histogram and any compensation if needed is then dialed in.
Peter



My Flickr page
Last Edited by pschlute on 22/10/2018 - 23:47

richandfleur

Link Posted 22/10/2018 - 23:57
JAK wrote:
Quote:
Careful, that's a slippery slope to infer some users aren't real photographers...

I am of the opinion that mirrorless cameras take over the process. I can't see why anyone would prefer them!

How is this different to live view on a DSLR?

As above I use this regularly for landscape and night long exposure work.

JAK

Link Posted 23/10/2018 - 00:13
richandfleur wrote:
JAK wrote:
Quote:
Careful, that's a slippery slope to infer some users aren't real photographers...

I am of the opinion that mirrorless cameras take over the process. I can't see why anyone would prefer them!

How is this different to live view on a DSLR?

As above I use this regularly for landscape and night long exposure work.

With mirrorless there is no optical viewfinder by definition. You can't switch back and use something which isn't present in the camera.
If it's an optical viewfinder you want, then mirrorless simply isn't for you apart from several compacts which have a viewfinder, albeit not TTL. To me that's a backwards step, been there and tried those years ago, hopefully they're not the future. My old ones are languishing on the shelf unloved! I've no wish to add to that collection.
John K
Last Edited by JAK on 23/10/2018 - 00:21
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