Pentax Full Frame
1,174 posts
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Posted 14/12/2012 - 21:51
I want FF but I'm in no rush... I think Pentax will be forced into eventually (for one reason or another - abandonment of APSC sensors by suppliers perhaps?) and I'll probably get a used V1-FF-body as the release FF-V2...
When a FF-Pentax is announced I think it will be followed closely by an announcement of an improved and modernised re-issue of the FA-line of lenses...
Pentax's R&D will have been busy no doubt.
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Digital:
Pentax K5- Vivitar 19mm 3.8; FA35mm f2; D-Xenon 100mm macro f2.8; DA50-200mm WR...
Flash:
Yongnuo YN-560; Vivitar 285HV; Cactus V4 triggers...
Film:
Pentax-MX & M50mm f1.4; Spottie & 55mm f1.8; MG & M40mm 2.8...
http://www.flickr.com/photos/daveholmesphotos/
When a FF-Pentax is announced I think it will be followed closely by an announcement of an improved and modernised re-issue of the FA-line of lenses...
Pentax's R&D will have been busy no doubt.
........................................................................
Digital:
Pentax K5- Vivitar 19mm 3.8; FA35mm f2; D-Xenon 100mm macro f2.8; DA50-200mm WR...
Flash:
Yongnuo YN-560; Vivitar 285HV; Cactus V4 triggers...
Film:
Pentax-MX & M50mm f1.4; Spottie & 55mm f1.8; MG & M40mm 2.8...
http://www.flickr.com/photos/daveholmesphotos/
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Posted 14/12/2012 - 21:57
Quote:
How will a FF camera improve the standard of your photography over what you can get from a K-5 or K30?
How will a FF camera improve the standard of your photography over what you can get from a K-5 or K30?
It won't. The only defect of APS-C originally was a lack of wide angles, for obvious reasons. Then the 12-24mm was released and all was well.
I have enough cameras and lenses, I just need a continual supply of subjects.
Best regards, John
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Posted 14/12/2012 - 22:00
Dodge69 wrote:
Inevitable if your talking about 25 years from now when we've got in medium format quality in our mobile 'phone laptop life device tricorders' then yeah I'm sure APS-C may be gone by then.
APS-C will remain for the foreseeable future for the same reasons it has succeeded. Smaller, cheaper bodies and lenses. As such it will continue to be a mid-market range and part of the 'consumer development path'.
FF bodies can drop in cost all they want, but I guarantee you the lenses won't.
Wouldn't the average Pentax user need over 10k to convert their range into convert into Canon L glass?
You can drop the FF body prices to a pound if you want, personally I'm still snookered.
Inevitable if your talking about 25 years from now when we've got in medium format quality in our mobile 'phone laptop life device tricorders' then yeah I'm sure APS-C may be gone by then.
APS-C will remain for the foreseeable future for the same reasons it has succeeded. Smaller, cheaper bodies and lenses. As such it will continue to be a mid-market range and part of the 'consumer development path'.
FF bodies can drop in cost all they want, but I guarantee you the lenses won't.
Wouldn't the average Pentax user need over 10k to convert their range into convert into Canon L glass?
You can drop the FF body prices to a pound if you want, personally I'm still snookered.
25 years I dont think sensor technology will even be around, there will be a device hooked up to our brain patterns that scan our vision to capture images.
Seriously APS-C sized sensors will not be manufactured after five years time..
Of course the lenses will drop in price, a larger market will result in costs being driven down...
Smeggypants wrote:
Here's a question for those moist over a Pentax FF ....
How will a FF camera improve the standard of your photography over what you can get from a K-5 or K30?
Here's a question for those moist over a Pentax FF ....
How will a FF camera improve the standard of your photography over what you can get from a K-5 or K30?
Better low light performance the k-5 is good but ff is better particularly for me and concert photography.
Thinner depth of field adds creativity.
Larger sensor gives more give in cropping scenario..
PPG Wedding photography Flickr
Concert photography
Currently on a Pentax hiatus until an FF Pentax is released
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Posted 14/12/2012 - 23:16
I think FF will become more standard for dslrs, while mirrorless cameras will get the apsc sensors and displace the market for entry level dslrs. I also think compact cameras and phones will get bigger sensors as standard - e.g. 1". We're already seeing it. The pixel war is over; the sensor size war is just warming up...
[link=https://500px.com/will_brealey/[/link]
[link=https://500px.com/will_brealey/[/link]
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Posted 14/12/2012 - 23:21
Smeggypants wrote:
Here's a question for those moist over a Pentax FF ....
How will a FF camera improve the standard of your photography over what you can get from a K-5 or K30?
Here's a question for those moist over a Pentax FF ....
How will a FF camera improve the standard of your photography over what you can get from a K-5 or K30?
LOL, deserves it's own thread rather than being stuck in another lame 'Pentax FF COMING SOON!!' one.
cabstar wrote:
Seriously APS-C sized sensors will not be manufactured after five years time..
Seriously APS-C sized sensors will not be manufactured after five years time..
Certainly admire your optimism for human progress. Bladerunner was set in 2019 though and 2001 Space Odyssey was set in uhh..
More worryingly, given Pentax's record, if the market moved that fast they're in deep doggy doo trouble!
Markets have varying degrees of action and some move not so much by consumer demand and expectations, but by what the suppliers decide the want to release.
They could have released cheap FF years ago if they wanted too, but that's not how they wanted to play the game.
Mobile phones, supermarkets, cars - lots of company's lots of competition.
Computer and cameras updates are so incremental, when the market is essentially controlled by a cabal. Intel/AMD/Microsoft = Canon/Nikon.
Given this dreamy optimism regards cheap FF bodies and lenses, I would have to ask why would the cabal tarnish their 'high end' market? Will it just be a FPS and Megapixel arms race after that? Or will Canikon be releasing new Medium Format cameras to create a new 'high end'?
LOL, hey that would put Pentax back in the game!
They best way for prices to drop and new tech to be implemented is if there's actually competition and in the higher end camera world this is utterly lacking.
Best thing for the game would be for Pentax, Sony and Samsung to step up. But will they, is it even feasible for them to break the cabal?
Pentax pour des images riches en détails!
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Posted 15/12/2012 - 00:20
Take a read of the innovators dilemma by Clayton m Christian.
It's a fascinating read a out how top business fail and get beaten by newer start ups wi disruptive technologies.
Full frame dslr is now ten years old the 1dx launched in 2002 it's old technology and is now at the end of its high margin life which is why it will soon become fit for consumers. What you will see is an increase in dslr processor power to handle all these huge megapixel files being banded around from camera to laptop etc...
The point and shoot market is virtually non existent due to the improvements in mobile phone cameras, in turn photography is seeing a surge in popularity because of this and consumers are demanding ever higher quality dslr.
PPG Wedding photography Flickr
Concert photography
Currently on a Pentax hiatus until an FF Pentax is released
It's a fascinating read a out how top business fail and get beaten by newer start ups wi disruptive technologies.
Full frame dslr is now ten years old the 1dx launched in 2002 it's old technology and is now at the end of its high margin life which is why it will soon become fit for consumers. What you will see is an increase in dslr processor power to handle all these huge megapixel files being banded around from camera to laptop etc...
The point and shoot market is virtually non existent due to the improvements in mobile phone cameras, in turn photography is seeing a surge in popularity because of this and consumers are demanding ever higher quality dslr.
PPG Wedding photography Flickr
Concert photography
Currently on a Pentax hiatus until an FF Pentax is released
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Posted 15/12/2012 - 01:21
cabstar wrote:
The point and shoot market is virtually non existent due to the improvements in mobile phone cameras,
The point and shoot market is virtually non existent due to the improvements in mobile phone cameras,
This was taken on a mobile phone
http://www.smeggys.co.uk/smeggy_images/smeggy/misc/2012-12-06_226589_shop_by_sho...
[i]Bodies: 1x K-5IIs, 2x K-5, Sony TX-5, Nokia 808
Lenses: Pentax DA 10-17mm ED(IF) Fish Eye, Pentax DA 14mm f/2.8, Sigma 17-70mm f/2.8, Pentax-A 28mm f/2.8, Sigma 30mm F1.4 EX DC, Pentax-A 50mm f/1.2, Pentax-A 50mm f/1.4, Pentax-FA 50mm f/1.4, Pentax-A 50mm f/1.7, Pentax DA* 50-135mm f/2.8, Sigma 135-400mm APO DG, and more ..
Flash: AF-540FGZ, Vivitar 283
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Posted 15/12/2012 - 01:23
Dodge69 wrote:
LOL, deserves it's own thread rather than being stuck in another lame 'Pentax FF COMING SOON!!' one.
Smeggypants wrote:
Here's a question for those moist over a Pentax FF ....
How will a FF camera improve the standard of your photography over what you can get from a K-5 or K30?
Here's a question for those moist over a Pentax FF ....
How will a FF camera improve the standard of your photography over what you can get from a K-5 or K30?
LOL, deserves it's own thread rather than being stuck in another lame 'Pentax FF COMING SOON!!' one.
Good idea. Consider it done.
[i]Bodies: 1x K-5IIs, 2x K-5, Sony TX-5, Nokia 808
Lenses: Pentax DA 10-17mm ED(IF) Fish Eye, Pentax DA 14mm f/2.8, Sigma 17-70mm f/2.8, Pentax-A 28mm f/2.8, Sigma 30mm F1.4 EX DC, Pentax-A 50mm f/1.2, Pentax-A 50mm f/1.4, Pentax-FA 50mm f/1.4, Pentax-A 50mm f/1.7, Pentax DA* 50-135mm f/2.8, Sigma 135-400mm APO DG, and more ..
Flash: AF-540FGZ, Vivitar 283
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Posted 15/12/2012 - 08:10
cabstar wrote:
...........
Seriously APS-C sized sensors will not be manufactured after five years time.......
Thinner depth of field adds creativity.
Larger sensor gives more give in cropping scenario..
...........
Seriously APS-C sized sensors will not be manufactured after five years time.......
Thinner depth of field adds creativity.
Larger sensor gives more give in cropping scenario..
With the top 8 best selling cameras in Japan all being APS-C SLR's there's
plenty of life left in the format yet.
APS-C and FF use the same range of focal lengths.
APS-C is just a crop of exactly the same picture on FF
DOF is controlled by aperture diameter not format
-
Half Man... Half Pentax ... Half Cucumber
Pentax K-1 + K-5 and some other stuff
Algi
Last Edited by Algernon on 15/12/2012 - 08:29
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Posted 15/12/2012 - 09:01
Be fair, Algi, cabstar's comment is valid, without going into technicalities.
APS-C has more perceived DOF, we know that.
We also know that we could crop a FF image down, providing there were enough pixels, and still retain excellent quality.
DOF is relevant to format because we use it in terms of angle of view rather than focal length. We don't see focal length, we see a view. To see the same view on APS-C we need a shorter focal length and get more DOF as a result.
What you say is also technically correct, but not part of the current context.
Best regards, John
APS-C has more perceived DOF, we know that.
We also know that we could crop a FF image down, providing there were enough pixels, and still retain excellent quality.
DOF is relevant to format because we use it in terms of angle of view rather than focal length. We don't see focal length, we see a view. To see the same view on APS-C we need a shorter focal length and get more DOF as a result.
What you say is also technically correct, but not part of the current context.
Best regards, John
Link
Posted 15/12/2012 - 09:21
Algernon wrote:
With the top 8 best selling cameras in Japan all being APS-C SLR's there's
plenty of life left in the format yet.
APS-C and FF use the same range of focal lengths.
APS-C is just a crop of exactly the same picture on FF
DOF is controlled by aperture diameter not format
-
cabstar wrote:
...........
Seriously APS-C sized sensors will not be manufactured after five years time.......
Thinner depth of field adds creativity.
Larger sensor gives more give in cropping scenario..
...........
Seriously APS-C sized sensors will not be manufactured after five years time.......
Thinner depth of field adds creativity.
Larger sensor gives more give in cropping scenario..
With the top 8 best selling cameras in Japan all being APS-C SLR's there's
plenty of life left in the format yet.
APS-C and FF use the same range of focal lengths.
APS-C is just a crop of exactly the same picture on FF
DOF is controlled by aperture diameter not format
-
Of course aps-c is the current best selling sensor bodies. Once ff sensors come down to aps c price levels then aps will be dumped by most manufacturers. Maunfacturers are there to make profit not sustain old technologies. FF bodies allow manufacturers to sell FF lenses to new users, don't under estimate the lure of the bottom line.
PPG Wedding photography Flickr
Concert photography
Currently on a Pentax hiatus until an FF Pentax is released
Link
Posted 15/12/2012 - 09:31
A couple of thoughts cabstar.
Do you not think that if FF prices fall, APS-C prices will also fall, thus making those cameras very affordable by new users? Those who might previously have not considered a DSLR?
Secondly, if FF lenses are made, the prices will be higher anyway and people grumble enough about APS-C lens prices. The bodies may be cheaper, but the lenses? Unless of course we accept a reduction in standards, and then what is the point?
Best regards, John
Do you not think that if FF prices fall, APS-C prices will also fall, thus making those cameras very affordable by new users? Those who might previously have not considered a DSLR?
Secondly, if FF lenses are made, the prices will be higher anyway and people grumble enough about APS-C lens prices. The bodies may be cheaper, but the lenses? Unless of course we accept a reduction in standards, and then what is the point?
Best regards, John
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Posted 15/12/2012 - 09:43
I think once sensor prices fall below a certain price point then product lines will be dropped, similar to CPU manufacturers.
I think I am right in saying apart from Sony no camera manufacturer makes sensors so they have no interest in lens manufacture which is why APS will eventually be dropped.
As for lens prices as with anything, once a product becomes mass market prices reach normal levels. Full frame lenses have been in production for years already, there isn't much R and D in ff lens development.
PPG Wedding photography Flickr
Concert photography
Currently on a Pentax hiatus until an FF Pentax is released
I think I am right in saying apart from Sony no camera manufacturer makes sensors so they have no interest in lens manufacture which is why APS will eventually be dropped.
As for lens prices as with anything, once a product becomes mass market prices reach normal levels. Full frame lenses have been in production for years already, there isn't much R and D in ff lens development.
PPG Wedding photography Flickr
Concert photography
Currently on a Pentax hiatus until an FF Pentax is released
Link
Posted 15/12/2012 - 09:44
I can't understand why people think they can just guess
Pentax pricing?
Give us a long focal length lens
they said....... It will be sold cheap they said.....
End result was the 560mm telecope that will cost about £6K
I wouldn't expect a Pentax FF to be any lower then that
Prices are already at rock bottom... the 35mm film cameras,
Z1-p MZ-s etc. were about £600 years ago. 6x6 cameras were
even dearer a Hasselblad was £500 in the 60's
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Half Man... Half Pentax ... Half Cucumber
Pentax K-1 + K-5 and some other stuff
Algi
Pentax pricing?
Give us a long focal length lensthey said....... It will be sold cheap they said.....
End result was the 560mm telecope that will cost about £6K
I wouldn't expect a Pentax FF to be any lower then that
Prices are already at rock bottom... the 35mm film cameras,
Z1-p MZ-s etc. were about £600 years ago. 6x6 cameras were
even dearer a Hasselblad was £500 in the 60's
-
Half Man... Half Pentax ... Half Cucumber
Pentax K-1 + K-5 and some other stuff
Algi
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Stuey
Member
Wales
Here's a question for those moist over a Pentax FF ....
How will a FF camera improve the standard of your photography over what you can get from a K-5 or K30?
For me I doubt it would but as an ff Pentax is clearly never going to happen all of you with full frame '*' and 'limited' lenses can send them to me so that I may arrange the correct disposal
K10D, K5 plus plenty of clueless enthusiasm.
My Flickr site link