Another pointless thread

I'm waiting for hydrogen - it's the chemist in me .

Steve

As a fellow chemist, same (less the possibility of an explosion - been in one and it wasn’t fun)!

30 years ago I used to understand hydrogen detonation. Canada did some good research on it. So did Russia - on a vast scale. Never experienced one 'in the flesh' but have seen some very impressive videos.

No need to worry about explosions with hydrogen powered cars - unless vapour cloud explosion with a petrol car concerns you.

I must confess to abandoning experimental chemistry as soon as possible. Got into theory. Much safer!! But I do like a good bonfire...

Steve

Concurred, bonfires are great. Fortunately “my” explosion wasn’t motoring related so it’s not tainted my vision too much!
Theory does sound a good option...

Electric cars are fine, I'm also interested in hybrids, or was..

..some friends are on their 3rd, this one is more economical than the last ones.

It does around 35-40 MPG, er..

It can't be plugged in, generates it's own electricity to charge the battery and has a 2L engine!

WHAT'S THE POINT?!!

Our new diesel camper van is a 1.5L and does 40+mpg, and at a fraction of the cost it's a no-brainer.

Problem with that is it would have to be tankered to the the filling stations, so same problem as with petrol/diesel and the associated dangers only much more so. Electricity doesn't require electric tankers!

There might be limited use for perhaps local transport, eg buses where a private local depot holds the fuel, but safely.

Hydrogen will eventually replace gas for heating many homes, and diesel for heavy vehicles (and campers?) but much as I would like it for private vehicles I just don't see it yet. It isn't "green"enough in production now and it will take a long time until it is, and there are enough filling places and the cost is low enough.
I don't think electric cars are as "green" as claimed - those batteries take a lot of resources and a lot of the electricity comes from less than green sources (including bio fuel which is not a green as they claim!).
One would suit us as we mostly do fairly local trips in the car.
We'll probably sell the camper soonish, it hasn't been used this year, and is getting too old diesel enginewise for many environmental zones. This year was going to be it's last with us but now we may hang on to it for a year, or we may sell it while everyone is looking for a camper due to Covid. I shall miss it when it goes though. I have missed our trips out with it this year, and am more than a little stir crazy right now.

Hydrogen wouldn't be stored as a compressed gas, it would be absorbed by some metal-based stuff and released as and when needed. Bulk storage and transport might even be as liquid ammonia or similar, which is already safely moved around on a vast scale. Chemistry, not physics .

Big technical and infrastructure challenges, of course. And electricity might still be needed to produce the hydrogen from water. But the big reward compared to batteries is storing a lot more energy in the same volume, with less weight. Also, the storage kit might last over 20 years, which a battery won't. So good for heavy vehicles (lorries, buses) and people who do lots of miles on long journeys. Possibly less so for family cars because of the average journey length. But there's a lot of development still to come for both hydrogen and electric vehicles, time will tell which wins out in the end - or whether it's a mix of the two. And like most things, it will probably be decided by cost.

Steve

I've heard the same. A friend of mine works at a semiconductor manufacturing company, where some of his colleagues drive electric cars. Although it's reasonably hotly debated, at the moment they've described it as a 'lateral shift' away from fossil fuels, insofar as it will likely be a good option in future but for now it is resource-heavy.
The one major plus, apart from government incentives and running costs as JAK mentioned, is going to be the use of 'spent' batteries, not fit for vehicles but can be used for industries.

My Saab's done a bit more than that - it's nearly run in...

I bet you've not done much of that this year

We swapped the car beginning of February and still not done 1000 miles in it, and that includes a week away in Whitby and touring up and down the coast before the lockdown, I've not even vacuumed it out yet

Really economical though, were getting two weeks to the gallon

I last filled up the tank just before lockdown i.e. just before the price dropped...

Steve

Same, I thought I was being smart and covering myself for the rush. I've still got more than half of the tank available.

It's long gone now but I do recall the moment and exact location when the mile counter on my Volvo 240 turned to 000000 (they put an extra digit on them so it's even more of a feat). You could even join a special club! In the end it wasn't worth £500 and Skoda were offering £1000 scrappage. I went from 28mpg to 57mpg in one go!

Just reading through the last few pages.again, it seems a split desicion.

Short journeys, then electric ( a plug in, not hybrid) seems the best choice, long tours we're still stuck with internal combustion, at the moment.

And they're now making electric motorcycles!

So I can't opt out and say "Ah but I need petrol for my bike..."

Is it to early for a beer?