John,

I think what's really bugging me about this is that these cameras, which were previously serious photographic tools, are being turned into consumer items,...loaded with gimmicks but missing essential photographic devices that were there previously.

The makers sem to expect the audience to be blinded by the basic technology of digital imaging, but more and more, this is to the detriment of good design. I'm not asking for an extention of the technology, just that they use good design in incorporating digital imaging into what was already a highly evolved photographic tool.

Mirror lock up is an important item for several demanding types of work and it SHOULD be there on a £700 camera which is presented by the makers as a "semi-pro" tool. just paying lip-service by tagging it onto the self-timer is hardly playing the game as it now lacks any really useful facility...with the total inclusion of electronics in these cameras good mirror control should be easier to offer but, I fear it is just not enough of a selling gimmick for the largely non-technical audience who gaze at adverts.

Equally, just because the film transport mechnaism of coventional SLR's determined their layout does NOT mean that makers can suspend design thinking now that the winding mech is gone. Frankly, it is absolutely laughable that with all of this great technology, one is obliged to fumble the camera thru 90 degrees to make a verticle shot and have to resort to weird brackets for tripod work.......of course, makers will happily provide a grip to 'kludge' over the design failure at a staggering £170...!?? Likewise, there really SHOULD be a cable release socket on any half serious camera worthy of the description but then again there is an expensive remote to buy as an accessory and retired accountants snapping the grandchildren on the lawn don't really know what a cable release is anyway.....much less have a use for such a feature.

Just to restate my case;

all the current DSLR models are consumers goods and as such are not intended by the manufacturers to be for serious photographers any more than for spontaneous 'lay' users...this holds true despite any statements from the makers.

All the current DSLR models are transitional cameras being, essentially, the 35mm SLR with some previously essential features removed and a sensor placed in the 'film gate'.

All current DSLR models show a reluctance on the part of makers to use the current technology creatively with an eye to progress of photography.

Most current DSLR models show a remarkable lack of good design skills when compared to conventional previous models.

George,

I understand that people such as yourself enjoy thrusting their crass ignorance in other peoples faces,...and, I also understand that you are a self-confessed "gear freak rather than a photographer" However, if you wish to disscuss DSLR design intelligently then i am only too happy to oblige.......Only by thoughtful comment can we expect manufacturers, particularly those of a different culture, to be mindful of their buyers rather than of their advertising agents.

Kimbo,

"........Modern cameras might be full of gimmicks but at least you get a lot for your money...."

Without wishing to be rude; this is spoken like a true child of consumerism....the admen would be proud of you!....

yes, i know how it works,...or rather, how it does'nt work...

10 secs is okay for entirely static shots.......

2 secs is more or less useless,...sometimes you need to flip the mirror and then wait until the action happens to trip the shutter.

The point is that we once had this feature on a decent SLR and now it's only a 'nod'.......kind of showing that they are only doing the user a favour on something that they don't really think is important because it's not stylish...a thing that only boring serious photographers use anyway..!!

Unfortunately, the reality is that we are not going to get any digital cameras with out quite a lot of pure gimmicks because the people who 'design' this stuff have that kind of perception of photographers needs.....

I'm surprised that out of that quickly bashed out list you can only find the 'live feed' a gimmick.......

Live feed would be handy to me because much of my output is stage photography and all too often The camera is uncomfortably high so sometimes it would be very useful to see the movement onstage by looking up at the lcd....

Actually, last week when I was trying to catch the foxes killing rabbits on a nearby hillside I was crouching/lying behind the camera covered in my German Army poncho and thinking how useful it would be to be able to see the action on the back of the camera...

"...... Modern dslr cameras offer an incredible range of features but so does a 10 x 8 field camera...."

The difference with the 10x8 is that the range of features are all functional and there for a reason......further, they are functional because real photographers found them either vital or useful.....they are hardly to be compared with the mindless complexity, and frankly, 'gimmicks' of most of the current DSLR's.

Square sensor,..25mm X 25mm,....format change (without having to physically reposition camera..we've had it for 50+ years on MF ) by pressure switch under either thumb for JPEG, full sensor capture for RAW....live feed to lcd,......lcd which can be oriented...remote feed to laptop,...duplicate memory card capture,...interchangeable viewfinders with MF choices(I had this on my Canon F1 system 28 years ago),...remote viewfinder facility with well designed choices,...differential masking of sensor,...full X-sync for flash,...wireless sync,.....supplied flash co-axial socket (why is this NOT on k10D???) ....'real' mirror lock-up (and down) by easily accessed pressure switch (why is this NOT on k10D??)...no fouling of lens mount by projecting body sections....provision of microprism ring on focussing screen (why is this missing from K10D??)....cable release socket (why is this missing from K10D??..yes, I know there is remote release facility!).....

If you MUST have some gimmicks then put in some usefull ones like on-board digital perspective control......

The 'technology' would not be even slightly challenged by any of the above...

And, this is with just a few minutes 'anger'...not even any deep thought..enough to be going on with...

Yes, but this is pretty poor design,...yet again we have a supposedley 'pro' camera which is loaded with mindless complexity that nobody will use but which does NOT have one of the most basic SLR pre-requisites....this is essential feature for several types of specific work and, we had it 30 years ago on pro level SLR's......

Thge big problem with all these DSLR models is that they are now the sole province of oriental designers and companies,...we have already seen what this means in camcorders which are LOADED with gimmicks but which lack the most basic manual controls,...to get a 'real' focussing ring you need to spend £4000..!!!

it's about time that DSLR makers started to think for themselves and design rather than 'style' digital camera systems rather than just go on with the same old film SLR's with a sensor thrown inside,...digital has broken the 'box' now we need to see makers moving outside it......

It's VERY frustating to have come from medium format cameras which were / are very well designed but to go digital thje only game in town (without spending twenty grand) is the 'black blob' and it's attendant endless gimmicks....a bit of good design and the inclusion of some basic facilities would'nt come amiss.

That shot looks a bit too good to me,...are you sure it's not a Canon shot??

..........and the k10 has only been on dealers shelves for the last 6 weeks here in the UK. In fact, supplies are still a bit sketchy.

"..........was previewed at shows last February....."

They were 'prereviews' of pre-production models....the real McCoy is only being reviewed now.....

"........Pentax seem to be busy undoing the "crop factor" on their new lenses.."

Well contrary to what a lot of people have been saying this was on the cards all along. That's probably why there is such a lack of decent wides for the 'APS-C' size sensor cameras.

Things will change faster now if it's true that Nikon is about to go full-frame /near full-frame with the DX3 curtesy of Sony for the sensor. If this is true expect most makers to follow suit apart from Olympus/Panny/leica.