I've heard that about Australian Beer.

Dan

That's what K10D has said he does on occasion, as when he's at a golf tournament he's limited to where he can take photos from. He therefore might have a 300mm on his D700 and crop down if necessary. If he were to crop it to the same image size as from his K10D, there would be no difference in DoF, FoV, perspective etc than if he'd taken it on the K10D.

Iceblinker is saying that to take full advantage of the FF sensor, you wouldn't want to do that all the time, so to get larger subject size on the sensor, you would need longer lenses now and again. So if you frequently found yourself using a 300mm lens on an APS camera, you'd want a 450mm lens to use on FF, otherwise you'd need to be cropping all the time and the advantage of the FF sensor would be lost.

Essentially that's what these past 4 pages has been about as far as I can see, and I'm starting to regret joining in.

No one is saying FF is better or worse than APS, 4/3s or 110, they're just all different. APS allows shorter focal lengths for a given subject size on a print than FF, therefore giving us an advantage in size and weight of our equipment. FF has advantages over APS as far as noise and DoF control is concerned. Each system has its benefits.

K10D, please just agree with Iceblinker that if you want to fill the frame with a subject from a given distance, you need a longer focal length with FF than you would with APS. That's all he wants you to say, and it's correct, so please do it.

Iceblinker, please just state that APS is not better than FF, and vice versa, it's just different. With advantages outlined above.

I'm not doing this as a moderator, I just can't quite believe this has been going round in circles for so long!

What was the original question again?

Dan

Note to self: Never, ever, join in with a thread that mentions FF again, just shut your eyes and pretend it's not there.

But if you're cropping the FF sensor's image down to APS size, then the enlargement to a 10x15 print is exactly the same. Therefore the DoF is the same. If you move forward, and to get the subject the 'same size' on the FF sensor, then it will require less enlargement at the printing stage, and will have less DoF.

Dan

To be honest Gary, DoF, FoV and focal length are a nightmare to discuss now we have so many different formats in common use. I make mistakes as much as the next person, because it's a tricky thing to get your head around.

Not sure your suggestion of a pint would necessarily help.

Dan

Think they must have had a dodgy copy of the 300mm, can't say I've noticed any variation in sharpness from f/4 onwards, it's just superb all the way.

Dan

Quoted from that link:
So if you use the same lens, and stay in the same place, the DoF will be the same. Imagine your FF sensor. You take a shot, then crop that image down to APS size. Why would the DoF change?

The DoF with a compact camera is more because the focal length can be a lot shorter to get the same FoV as a DSLR.

Dan

Surely if you've got a 300mm on each, the DoF is the same. Granted, if you were to use a 200mm on the K-7 to get the same FoV, then the DoF would be greater.

Dan

The DA*300mm is sublime, you wouldn't be disappointed in it, and if that's the price for a new one, that's great. If it's secondhand, I'd be inclined to stump up an extra £100 and get a new one, I noticed London Camera Exchange are doing them at £899.

Having said that, if you want something like your Tamron but better, then I'd go for the DA 55-300 as Mark suggests, rave reviews all round.

I'd be reluctant to use a teleconverter on the 50-200 just because it would then have small effective aperture, and I found with mine I needed to close it down to f/8 to get the best from it anyway.

Dan

Can I put forward a motion to change the name 'moderator' to 'Forum God'?

Stickies could well be the way to go. We could perhaps have a submission of an 'article' (thread describing a subject) to be made a sticky. We could then have an accompanying thread discussing the accuracy of that article, and amendments could be made to the article by the Forum Gods until it was deemed 'complete'.

A statement at the top of the article along the lines of "This article was compiled from an initial submission by *username* and subsequent discussion on *this thread* (with a link to the original discussion). If you have any additions or comments please add them to the above thread for discussion." could help ensure that the article remained up to date and people were happy with how the information was gathered.

I think it would be good to include references too.

Dan

I've seen plenty of excellent aerial photos from all sorts of Pentax cameras, my K10D did me proud when I was shooting out the side of a microlight - you should be able to get quality photos whether you have a K10D or a K-7.

Dan