Pentax/Ricoh putting prices up


Algernon

Link Posted 18/04/2012 - 21:39
The clothing trade have always had big markups, partly because they have to take a risk with seasonal stock which may finish up drastically reduced at the end of the season, plus it's a rip-off

The photographic industry traditionally worked on a 50% MUP which equals a 33.33% profit margin. It's probably still the same on general items such as small cameras and flashguns, cable releases etc. Cameras were cut to the bone in the 60's/70's by mail order companies like Jessops. As far as I know they still haven't recovered..... Looking at the price of a K-5 it's obvious they haven't recovered

Most importers give discounts based on how many units are ordered which helps the online retailers and cripples the small shops.

If you look around wholesalers such as Makro you can see that the margins aren't massive. In the 70's Makro actually sold photographic gear for less than a dealer could buy it for. Partly because they buy thousands of items at a time and qualify for the biggest discounts and they also qualify for wholesale prices. Kodak never gave much away because they knew dealers had to stock their stuff.

Putting out nonsense about profit margins is very damaging to Pentax.
Half Man... Half Pentax ... Half Cucumber

Pentax K-1 + K-5 and some other stuff

Algi

Mannesty

Link Posted 18/04/2012 - 21:52
The way I see it, my collection of Pentax lenses has suddenly increased in value, which is a pleasant change. I'm happy with the perceived increase in prices.

If I were to sell some of them in a month or two I might even get back what I paid for them.

Come to think of it, I could probably sell most of them, buy Sigma equivalents, and have a wedge of cash left over to buy a Canon body and a MP-E 65mm Macro lens . . . but I probably won't.
Peter E Smith

My flickr Photostream
Last Edited by Mannesty on 18/04/2012 - 21:52

Dave-L

Link Posted 18/04/2012 - 22:20
Well all this price hike talk forced my hand and I rather like my new 10-17 Pentax fisheye, bought this week from SRS. Old stock, old price.

I won't need any more lenses now for a long time, by which time things should become clearer. All I'm going to say about the principle behind all this is that it's entirely up to Pentax-Ricoh to decide how best to grow the brand, and that isn't necessarily by selling their stuff at low prices.

I just hope they know what they are doing!
K3/K5/10-17fisheye/15mmDA Ltd/18-55WR/55-300DA/100DFAMacroWR/50F1.4M/200F4M/300DA*F4/Mitsuki 400F5.6/others.
Last Edited by Dave-L on 18/04/2012 - 22:23

JAK

Link Posted 18/04/2012 - 22:28
Anybody thought that they may have put the prices up so they can announce a big price reduction, perhaps in conjunction with a new camera release. Supermarkets do it all the time.

John
John K

Smeggypants

Link Posted 19/04/2012 - 01:40
Unbelievable!

Mr Ned claims Pentax aren't raising prices on their lenses, but from what he said here they are.

"To clarify, we have not "raised" the prices on any lenses. The last increase we announced was over a year ago and applied to the DA* star lenses (such as the 16-50mm and the 50-135mm) as well as the FA50mm f/1.4.

One user comment I read summarized the situation quite well by saying, “I think you are seriously misunderstanding the whole conversation. Pentax has not raised prices. They have required authorized dealers to stick to MSRP [Manufacturer’s Suggested Retail Price] or some percentage of it (we do not know the exact terms). Pentax is attempting to police their sales channel just as many other manufacturers do. Any additional margin will go to the dealers not Pentax.”

The comment above is pretty accurate in his assessment of the retail distribution channels, not only for Pentax, but for every manufacturer in the photo industry. For our growth as a company, and the health of the photo retail marketplace, it is necessary to set guidelines for retail pricing to protect the integrity of the marketplace, and the value of a manufacturer’s products."

[i]Bodies: 1x K-5IIs, 2x K-5, Sony TX-5, Nokia 808
Lenses: Pentax DA 10-17mm ED(IF) Fish Eye, Pentax DA 14mm f/2.8, Sigma 17-70mm f/2.8, Pentax-A 28mm f/2.8, Sigma 30mm F1.4 EX DC, Pentax-A 50mm f/1.2, Pentax-A 50mm f/1.4, Pentax-FA 50mm f/1.4, Pentax-A 50mm f/1.7, Pentax DA* 50-135mm f/2.8, Sigma 135-400mm APO DG, and more ..
Flash: AF-540FGZ, Vivitar 283

Smeggypants

Link Posted 19/04/2012 - 05:06
mecrox wrote:
Algernon wrote:
That's total nonsense. It must have been written by someone with less than half a brain and I find it hard to believe that yours is any bigger for repeating such tripe! . Most retailers margins nowadays on high price goods are around 10-20% and they have to give a cut out of that to the Credit Card companies.

Lol. That's not what the list (a shot was included) says. It's on the other forum, so I'd check it before helping yourself to some more tripe. The margins differed on different lenses, ranging from 37% on up. However, bear in mind that I said "a notional selling price" before any reductions. The top price may not be what a dealer actually charges so his margin might well be lower but it wouldn't in the least surprise me if the price soon becomes the top one if Ricoh have their way. As I said, these gents in Japan are after big money - yours.

having worked in retail I can tell you that Algernon is correct and your source is rubbish
[i]Bodies: 1x K-5IIs, 2x K-5, Sony TX-5, Nokia 808
Lenses: Pentax DA 10-17mm ED(IF) Fish Eye, Pentax DA 14mm f/2.8, Sigma 17-70mm f/2.8, Pentax-A 28mm f/2.8, Sigma 30mm F1.4 EX DC, Pentax-A 50mm f/1.2, Pentax-A 50mm f/1.4, Pentax-FA 50mm f/1.4, Pentax-A 50mm f/1.7, Pentax DA* 50-135mm f/2.8, Sigma 135-400mm APO DG, and more ..
Flash: AF-540FGZ, Vivitar 283

Smeggypants

Link Posted 19/04/2012 - 05:09
Dave-L wrote:
Well all this price hike talk forced my hand and I rather like my new 10-17 Pentax fisheye, bought this week from SRS. Old stock, old price.

I won't need any more lenses now for a long time, by which time things should become clearer. All I'm going to say about the principle behind all this is that it's entirely up to Pentax-Ricoh to decide how best to grow the brand, and that isn't necessarily by selling their stuff at low prices.

I just hope they know what they are doing!

I agree and I did mention somewhere, another pentax forum I think, that in someways in order to compete with Canikon they should equalise price so as to create a n equal perception of value.

but my beef is with Mr Ned's untruths and nonsense about price parity to combat online discounting
[i]Bodies: 1x K-5IIs, 2x K-5, Sony TX-5, Nokia 808
Lenses: Pentax DA 10-17mm ED(IF) Fish Eye, Pentax DA 14mm f/2.8, Sigma 17-70mm f/2.8, Pentax-A 28mm f/2.8, Sigma 30mm F1.4 EX DC, Pentax-A 50mm f/1.2, Pentax-A 50mm f/1.4, Pentax-FA 50mm f/1.4, Pentax-A 50mm f/1.7, Pentax DA* 50-135mm f/2.8, Sigma 135-400mm APO DG, and more ..
Flash: AF-540FGZ, Vivitar 283

K10D

Link Posted 19/04/2012 - 05:28
Smeggypants wrote:
my beef is with Mr Ned's untruths and nonsense about price parity to combat online discounting

Maybe he is trying to win hearts and minds?

Best regards.

nass

Link Posted 19/04/2012 - 06:54
Quote:
Ingleslenobel, thanks for the question, our policy is for the U.S. only. There's no connection between what we've done in the states and any other region where Pentax is sold.

Ned responded to a question by me citing "no price rises", if that was true in Europe too
... just another middle-aged guy with a hobby. I have an extreme macro learning site at extreme-macro.co.uk - Pentax-centric, your feedback and comments would be appreciated!

Smeggypants

Link Posted 19/04/2012 - 07:48
K10D wrote:
Smeggypants wrote:
my beef is with Mr Ned's untruths and nonsense about price parity to combat online discounting

Maybe he is trying to win hearts and minds?

Best regards.

LOL - I know what you mean but Adolf won't like it going further
[i]Bodies: 1x K-5IIs, 2x K-5, Sony TX-5, Nokia 808
Lenses: Pentax DA 10-17mm ED(IF) Fish Eye, Pentax DA 14mm f/2.8, Sigma 17-70mm f/2.8, Pentax-A 28mm f/2.8, Sigma 30mm F1.4 EX DC, Pentax-A 50mm f/1.2, Pentax-A 50mm f/1.4, Pentax-FA 50mm f/1.4, Pentax-A 50mm f/1.7, Pentax DA* 50-135mm f/2.8, Sigma 135-400mm APO DG, and more ..
Flash: AF-540FGZ, Vivitar 283

mecrox

Link Posted 19/04/2012 - 09:49
Smeggypants wrote:
mecrox wrote:
Quote:
That's total nonsense. It must have been written by someone with less than half a brain and I find it hard to believe that yours is any bigger for repeating such tripe! . Most retailers margins nowadays on high price goods are around 10-20% and they have to give a cut out of that to the Credit Card companies.

Lol. That's not what the list (a shot was included) says. It's on the other forum, so I'd check it before helping yourself to some more tripe. The margins differed on different lenses, ranging from 37% on up. However, bear in mind that I said "a notional selling price" before any reductions. The top price may not be what a dealer actually charges so his margin might well be lower but it wouldn't in the least surprise me if the price soon becomes the top one if Ricoh have their way. As I said, these gents in Japan are after big money - yours.

having worked in retail I can tell you that Algernon is correct and your source is rubbish

Would that have been in Grace Brothers by any chance? It may well be inaccurate, of course, but perhaps not - and in any event you can go to the other forum and check it. See here

johnriley

Link Posted 19/04/2012 - 10:06
That table is all very well, but margins are something confidential to the trade. We'd be on the surface horrified by many margins in different fields.

In the area I worked in margins would be maybe 79% on own brand goods, and maybe as little as 10% on special orders. The company needed to make 30% to break even. So on average margins needed to be better than 30% and lots of, particularly small, orders were done at a loss.

Higher value items have to be stocked for longer and may need higher margins. Fast moving items might be OK on a lower margin.

We don't get a proper overall picture of a company's profitability by looking at some margins on one product line.
Best regards, John

Algernon

Link Posted 19/04/2012 - 13:47
mecrox wrote:
It may well be inaccurate, of course, but perhaps not - and in any event you can go to the other forum and check it. See here

Nothing wrong with that table. It's showing RRP's which include VAT at whatever rate it is in I presume France.

It's actually the same mark-up that I mentioned earlier, which has been the standard in the photographic trade for years i.e. 50% some slow selling lenses have been given slightly more others slightly less because of fierce competition. Obviously no one sells at these prices

Taking one that shows exactly the 50% MUP the 300mm DA* in this country that sells for £900 which is 1090 Euros less VAT which I assume is about 20% leaves 908 Euros Cost is 800.57 so the profit is 107.43 which is 10% of the SP inc. VAT which is why Pentax want the selling prices increasing.
Half Man... Half Pentax ... Half Cucumber

Pentax K-1 + K-5 and some other stuff

Algi

foneypony

Link Posted 19/04/2012 - 14:37
mecrox wrote:
Smeggypants wrote:
Quote:
Algernon wrote:
That's total nonsense. It must have been written by someone with less than half a brain and I find it hard to believe that yours is any bigger for repeating such tripe! . Most retailers margins nowadays on high price goods are around 10-20% and they have to give a cut out of that to the Credit Card companies.

Lol. That's not what the list (a shot was included) says. It's on the other forum, so I'd check it before helping yourself to some more tripe. The margins differed on different lenses, ranging from 37% on up. However, bear in mind that I said "a notional selling price" before any reductions. The top price may not be what a dealer actually charges so his margin might well be lower but it wouldn't in the least surprise me if the price soon becomes the top one if Ricoh have their way. As I said, these gents in Japan are after big money - yours.

having worked in retail I can tell you that Algernon is correct and your source is rubbish

Would that have been in Grace Brothers by any chance? It may well be inaccurate, of course, but perhaps not - and in any event you can go to the other forum and check it. See here

foneypony

Link Posted 19/04/2012 - 14:57
Hi all, let me tell you again. No matter what is going on in other countries, the UK retailers of camera equipment are making anything from 0 - 5% on DSLR sale. There has been talk about sales or return!!! What guff, there is no such thing as sale or return, I can assure you.
People have been quoting credit terms etc.......the largest camera company has it dealers on 14 days with payments taken automatically by DD!!!!!

Seriously, with the costs those guys have, we will see more go under as they just cannot make anything. I feel they should be making 20-30% on lenses etc as they make nothing on the bodies and kits....

Also, are you aware that lenses imported alone (not with a body) are subjested to 6-7% duty!!

It all adds up.

If the camera retailers make soooo much money, why are so many going out of business?

If they make so much money why are half the camera shops in our great land in such a mess?

It's that that hard to work out guys is it????????

Think about it, please.....The camera trade is very tough, as is any CE trade.
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