Pentax/Ricoh putting prices up


johnriley

Link Posted 18/04/2012 - 17:07
Well it's far more transparent than in the days when I worked in a company where a price increase was immediately applied to old stock, every time.

In the early 1970s inflation was rampant (20% at one point I think) and it was a constant repricing. Stocks were also very intermittent and some items had to be waited for for up to 9 months, or even longer in a few isolated instances.

We have become used to being utterly spoiled in recent years and a lot of companies have disappeared, unable to compete. I don't know whether resale price maintenance was a good or bad thing, but it meant people competed on service only.

Mind you, service could still be pretty shoddy, even at high prices. Sometimes quite disgraceful. No system is perfect and companies are actually in business to make a good living.
Best regards, John

nass

Link Posted 18/04/2012 - 17:10
Wobbly, thank you. But the question wasn't put to you, it was specifically and only put to SRS. I hope that this doesn't come across as rude but you and I don't have the facts to hand, we're uninformed. I'd rather have it from the horse's mouth so to speak.

Personally I can't help but be a little bit sceptical when no price rises have seemingly ocurred anywhere else. Ned confirmed none in the US and we've seen none in Europe. So just here? Or, none by Pentax themselves, but brought on by exchange rate shifts?

I've no doubt that Pentax and SRS are both cuddly fcompanies with great service and some terrific people there and all but you know, this camera stuff costs us a lot of money and I for one have no intention of just being a doormat and accepting being told you will now pay XYZ. Maybe some people are satisfied just to do as they're told - I'm not one of them!
... just another middle-aged guy with a hobby. I have an extreme macro learning site at extreme-macro.co.uk - Pentax-centric, your feedback and comments would be appreciated!

johnriley

Link Posted 18/04/2012 - 17:17
Quote:
I for one have no intention of just being a doormat and accepting being told you will now pay XYZ

I'm not sure exactly what you can do about it. The price is the price and unless you negotiate with a supplier a discount for some reason then it's the price. Even then there's a limit and most suppliers, if not all, will not go beyond a certain point.

The price is always a compromise and it should settle at a point where it is acceptable to the buyer and also to the seller, giving them a proper amount of profit. If everyone isn't satisfied then it's not a good sale.
Best regards, John

WobblyGoblin

Link Posted 18/04/2012 - 17:35
nass wrote:
I hope that this doesn't come across as rude...

No offense taken . If I have understood you correctly I am actually in agreement - Pentax US have explained the price rises there but the logic doesn't hold for the UK. I'm still in the dark as to why prices are rising here as is everyone else. We can hypothesise and guess but we don't have all the information.

The simple facts are that prices are rising at a much higher rate than inflation. All I can say is that I am not happy about that. I won't be buying new lenses at those prices. Other people's opinions may differ.

With regards to talk of switching brands, some people may bleed Pentax red when they are cut, but I for one haven't pledged a lifelong allegiance to Pentax. I like my Pentax kit and switching brands isn't something I would do lightly but the barriers to exit have reduced (i.e. the secondhand prices of my lenses have continually risen and the price differential between Pentax and Other Brands has reduced). If someone was already considering switching these price rises (over the last few years) have potentially made things easier.
You will only prise my 43Ltd from my cold, dead hands...

George Lazarette

Link Posted 18/04/2012 - 17:36
Nass, the last thing we need at the moment is unpretentious middle-aged guys steaming in here from another Pentax forum and adding to the general whine.

Do you REALLY think that Pentax don't know that they will lose some sales by raising prices? REALLY?

Words fail me.

Some people appear to be unaware of two things. One; that a company must make money to survive, and Two; that a company has a right to charge what it thinks will best accomplish One.

The "Never mind the quality, look at the price" brigade are never going to get Pentax flying again. Pentax needs customers who value the brand for its strengths, not bargain-basement nutters chasing the lowest price. (Not that I am calling YOU a nutter, but you appear to be a man who fits Oscar Wilde's definition of a cynic - one who knows the price of everything and the value of nothing.)

G
Keywords: Charming, polite, and generally agreeable.
Last Edited by George Lazarette on 18/04/2012 - 17:40

nass

Link Posted 18/04/2012 - 17:42
Yes, agreed John. And I'm really not some rabid anti capitalist - companies need to make money, SRS included. Of course. But, here's the rub, if a product is suddenly going to cost me 25% more, well my salary hasn't gone up so, well, I'd like a little more value as well, please - only just I think?

I appreciate that he US and the UK may be different cases, hence the question. But you know, both Pentax and its distributors seem to be falling over themselves to deny they are responsible for price rises, but in both cases its the consumer that suffers and has to pay all sorts of extra money out of their own hard earned cash. But what has the consumer actually had in return? Nothing as far as I can tell?
... just another middle-aged guy with a hobby. I have an extreme macro learning site at extreme-macro.co.uk - Pentax-centric, your feedback and comments would be appreciated!

George Lazarette

Link Posted 18/04/2012 - 17:58
Nass, over the years, prices for manufactured goods have come down. Massively. Periodically, prices may need to go up or down to account for exchange rates and all sorts of other things.

At one time, Pentax appears to have attempted to compete purely on the basis of price. We may now be seeing a re-alignment. I don't know. What I do know is that after the present hiatus, prices will revert to their long-term downward trend.

G
Keywords: Charming, polite, and generally agreeable.

obione

Link Posted 18/04/2012 - 18:00
Neds,web page ;
http://nedbunnell.posterous.com/lens-prices-and-our-channel-strategy-in-the-u

Lens prices and our channel strategy in the U.S.





I realize that many of you have expressed concern over our new unilateral pricing policy and specifically the lens pricing. However, the new policy we introduced has both short and longer term implications for our plans in the U.S. Recognizing that there is frustration and misinformation being discussed on various forums, I’d like to address a few of your concerns.

To clarify, we have not "raised" the prices on any lenses. The last increase we announced was over a year ago and applied to the DA* star lenses (such as the 16-50mm and the 50-135mm) as well as the FA50mm f/1.4.

One user comment I read summarized the situation quite well by saying, “I think you are seriously misunderstanding the whole conversation. Pentax has not raised prices. They have required authorized dealers to stick to MSRP [Manufacturer’s Suggested Retail Price] or some percentage of it (we do not know the exact terms). Pentax is attempting to police their sales channel just as many other manufacturers do. Any additional margin will go to the dealers not Pentax.”

The comment above is pretty accurate in his assessment of the retail distribution channels, not only for Pentax, but for every manufacturer in the photo industry. For our growth as a company, and the health of the photo retail marketplace, it is necessary to set guidelines for retail pricing to protect the integrity of the marketplace, and the value of a manufacturer’s products.

One specific plan we have which will benefit the brand and many of you as customers is to increase availability of Pentax products in retail stores.

For example, during the last year we have renewed relationships or expanded our presence with key photo retailers across the U.S. such as Samy’s (LA), WB Hunt (Boston area), Dodd Camera (Cleveland), Ace Photo (Virginia), Cameraland (Iowa), Cameraland (NYC), Creve Coeur Camera (greater St. Louis), National Camera Exchange (Minneapolis) as well as others. In addition, you’re going to very shortly hear that Pentax is back in a major National account, which is something we’ve been working on extremely hard for over a year.

While I can’t share certain details, I can tell you that establishing a level playing field is critical to our expansion in the States. This includes new partners being able to carry and offer not only our cameras but our lenses. The prices some of you refer to are likely found “online” and have in the past represented significant discounts which no storefront can compete against. As such, until we create parity in pricing, it’s very hard to get retailers to want to carry or expand their support for Pentax.

Many of you have asked for greater availability of Pentax cameras in stores, where you can touch and test the product. This is absolutely the right approach for us to take and is consistent with Pentax and Ricoh’s goal to grow our businesses in the U.S. market.

We realize the need for Pentax to better monitor prices across our distribution channels will likely result in higher lens costs to you. Therefore, once we’ve established this program, we will consider running lens rebate promotions in the future. We tested this program successfully several years ago and these type of rebates offer a good value to consumers and increased traffic to our dealers.

I would also like to dispel any rumors or misinformed comments that our relationship with Ricoh is in any way responsible for our changes in retail channel pricing policies. We are excited about being part of Ricoh and the opportunities it presents to Pentax for future growth in the photo industry.

I hope this helps you better understand our channel strategy in the U.S. and how lens pricing is an integral part of the plan. And I certainly appreciate and encourage your comments on this matter
k-5, K-5ii,60-250 f4, 50 f1.4 af,17-70 f4, 100mm macro wr,siggy 10-20 siggy 100-300f4

dougf8

Link Posted 18/04/2012 - 18:55
George Lazarette wrote:
dougf8 wrote:

I've noticed the images I produce with other brands are no worse, leading me to the conclusion the brand is irrelevant.

No worse than what? You're not using Pentax lenses.

G

You missed the all important word "mostly". Have another go.

Also I'm not sure about your high falutin' ways up-country, with your fancy calendars and enclaves, but in Cornwall, some folks who have stuff, give it to other folks, then the other folks give it back again afterwards. I'm sure there's a word for it. You being a hexpert will doubtless know. Right on boy.

Anyway even a pre-loved 12-24mm Pentax at £500 is too high. And will be driven higher by the new prices. A Sigma 10-20mm is half the money, but not half the fun or half the quality. And I can get a Tokina in another mount, are they that different.

BTW, still waiting to know your academic record in photography ...
Lurking is shirking.!
Last Edited by dougf8 on 18/04/2012 - 18:56

mecrox

Link Posted 18/04/2012 - 19:37
I guess the message is shop around. At present the K5 is a lot cheaper in Germany than here, as are some Pentax lenses. It probably won't last, as I expect that Ricoh will soon bring their pricing magic to the Eurozone too.

The news from the USA is risky for Ricoh. Internet sales serve a greater function there than in Europe because the vast size of the place often makes local stores impractical and because of their culture. Penalizing internet sales in order to support B&M stores may not work all that well in the US whereas it may work better in Europe.

In giving up the advantage of value that Pentax had over the Canonikon steamroller, I guess we have to hope that Ricoh have something else up their sleeve because it was one of the main things which kept them in the game, imho. Otherwise, trouble in store I reckon.

A certain irony in that the "big money" which some mention whenever the name of Ricoh comes up has turned out to mean the customer's money. A post on another website alleges that the dealer margin in one Eurozone country on one Pentax lens, the 50mm f2.8 macro, is 69% with the DA 21mm coming in at a scarcely less tasty 61% - on a notional selling price before any dealer reductions. I've no idea whether similar margins apply to the UK. Even so, brush up those bargaining skills boys.

Algernon

Link Posted 18/04/2012 - 20:18
mecrox wrote:
A post on another website alleges that the dealer margin in one Eurozone country on one Pentax lens, the 50mm f2.8 macro, is 69% with the DA 21mm coming in at a scarcely less tasty 61% - on a notional selling price before any dealer reductions. I've no idea whether similar margins apply to the UK. Even so, brush up those bargaining skills boys.

That's total nonsense. It must have been written by someone with less than half a brain and I find it hard to believe that yours is any bigger for repeating such tripe! . Most retailers margins nowadays on high price goods are around 10-20% and they have to give a cut out of that to the Credit Card companies.
Half Man... Half Pentax ... Half Cucumber

Pentax K-1 + K-5 and some other stuff

Algi

beginner

Link Posted 18/04/2012 - 20:36
I worked in the clothing retail trade for many years....Our mark up was double the cost price plus vat!.....from that,after wages, rent,buisness rates and insurance,our profit was 2 1/2%.....Not alot!
K20D...ist DS ,DA18/55,DA16/45.DA* 50/135,"A"1.7 50MM..."A" 70/210..M 50mm f2...Tamron 90mm macro,28/300 Tamron,200/500 Tamron 6.9....A Pentax DA*300... Sigma10/20,FA31mm 1.8 Ltd*********,FA 77mm Ltd!

mecrox

Link Posted 18/04/2012 - 20:46
Algernon wrote:
That's total nonsense. It must have been written by someone with less than half a brain and I find it hard to believe that yours is any bigger for repeating such tripe! . Most retailers margins nowadays on high price goods are around 10-20% and they have to give a cut out of that to the Credit Card companies.

Lol. That's not what the list (a shot was included) says. It's on the other forum, so I'd check it before helping yourself to some more tripe. The margins differed on different lenses, ranging from 37% on up. However, bear in mind that I said "a notional selling price" before any reductions. The top price may not be what a dealer actually charges so his margin might well be lower but it wouldn't in the least surprise me if the price soon becomes the top one if Ricoh have their way. As I said, these gents in Japan are after big money - yours.
Last Edited by mecrox on 18/04/2012 - 20:53

ChrisR

Link Posted 18/04/2012 - 20:52
Algernon wrote:
mecrox wrote:
A post on another website alleges that the dealer margin in one Eurozone country on one Pentax lens, the 50mm f2.8 macro, is 69% with the DA 21mm coming in at a scarcely less tasty 61% - on a notional selling price before any dealer reductions. I've no idea whether similar margins apply to the UK. Even so, brush up those bargaining skills boys.

That's total nonsense. It must have been written by someone with less than half a brain and I find it hard to believe that yours is any bigger for repeating such tripe! . Most retailers margins nowadays on high price goods are around 10-20% and they have to give a cut out of that to the Credit Card companies.

Algi.

I completely agree, and I suspect most retailers are not even getting anything like the10-20%.

When we had retail price maintenance in Britain, every one was aware the retail mark up was thirty three and a third percent. Like it or lump it.

I worked in an industry with a mark up of between 200-250% on most equipment for capital work, but those days have long since gone, the same industry would now think Christmas had come if they had a mark up 5% on equipment for large capital work, most of the time its now 2-3%.


Take care.
Chris R.

I. El. (Eng). (Rtd).

jules

Link Posted 18/04/2012 - 21:24
Algernon wrote:
mecrox wrote:
A post on another website alleges that the dealer margin in one Eurozone country on one Pentax lens, the 50mm f2.8 macro, is 69% with the DA 21mm coming in at a scarcely less tasty 61% - on a notional selling price before any dealer reductions. I've no idea whether similar margins apply to the UK. Even so, brush up those bargaining skills boys.

That's total nonsense. It must have been written by someone with less than half a brain and I find it hard to believe that yours is any bigger for repeating such tripe! . Most retailers margins nowadays on high price goods are around 10-20% and they have to give a cut out of that to the Credit Card companies.

I know a certain Large retailer in he UK, that when they sell a certain brand of Beginner DSLR, they make only £2.87 on the DSLR, Warranties/Filters/Accessories etc is where they make their profit.
I used to unfortunately work for Staples at one time and we used to get into trouble deep, as in interviewed by the Manager, when a Laptop left the shop without a warranty attached beause the margin on them was soo low!

Bugger that for a game of Soldiers! I'm never going back to retail!

I used to burn ammunition for a living, now that was fun
Cheers Jules...
tri-elmar-fudd

Back in the room!
“The single most important component of a camera is the twelve inches behind it.”...Ansel Adams
www.exaggeratedperspectives.com
Last Edited by jules on 18/04/2012 - 21:25
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