Pentax/Ricoh putting prices up


ChrisA

Link Posted 17/04/2012 - 08:32
vrapan wrote:
However I am certain that it would be hard to swallow if your bottle of beer jumped from 2 to 4, the Carrera that was 400 went to 700 overnight and so people (including me admittedly) find hard to swallow the doubling of lens prices from last year.

You took the words out of my mouth here.

No one is quibbling about camera prices, and no one would be quibbling if the lens prices were increasing by a few percent a year with inflation - or even above inflation.

It's sudden large increases that inevitably make people reassess things.
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Pentax K-3, DA18-135, DA35 F2.4, DA17-70, DA55-300, FA28-200, A50 F1.7, A100 F4 Macro, A400 F5.6, Sigma 10-20 EXDC, 50-500 F4.5-6.3 APO DG OS Samsung flash SEF-54PZF(x2)
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foneypony

Link Posted 17/04/2012 - 09:07
Guys, you are quibbling about prices, which ever way you look at it.
I good and long term friend of mine in the the photo trade, more than 1 outlet. I know that when he sells a DSLR, in most cases the business makes 5% or less. More than this in considered very good....5%!!!! A certain top brand to be competitive the margin at point of sale can be 0....yes 0%...
Has anybody ever though that Pentax have been absorbing increases and maybe now are forced to increase prices.. Also, maybe dealers are beginning to realise that if they want to pay the bills, staff and keep a roof over their heads maybe they need to make something!!
People moan about fuel..yes it bis expensive but compare it to beer. When you think what the raw materials are of beer, and how it is made, compare that with all the costs and expertise of oil drilling and refining....suddenly ur Friday night Ale looks very very expensive...
Only a few weeks ago some people on here i saw moaning that the K5 was too cheap!!!
These companies are having a hard time, the global giant Sony, $5 Billion losses......also, maybe Pentax lens prices are a little higher because they are better.....quite simply engineered better using better materials....judging by many pictures I see from Pentax users, that what I believe.

johnriley

Link Posted 17/04/2012 - 09:35
I agree, Pentax products are generally better made than the norm. I expect that to cost money and it disturbs me that so many are only seemingly aware of price.

Other marques make cheap plastic cameras and lenses and they are welcome to do so. Frankly I wouldn't want to buy one. I also wouldn't want Pentax to be pressured into reducing standards.
Best regards, John

mecrox

Link Posted 17/04/2012 - 10:02
johnriley wrote:
I agree, Pentax products are generally better made than the norm. I expect that to cost money and it disturbs me that so many are only seemingly aware of price.

Other marques make cheap plastic cameras and lenses and they are welcome to do so. Frankly I wouldn't want to buy one. I also wouldn't want Pentax to be pressured into reducing standards.

I think the point is that some other marques make polycarbonate products in addition to highly priced high-end products whose performance and engineering are as good as any similar product made anywhere. If Pentax does not make more polycarbonate products of the K-r or DA 35mm f2.4 AL kind then it's unlikely to attract all that many new customers. The number of people prepared to drop several thousand on camera equipment is always going to be very small, and in a field with high R&D and component costs the number may easily become too small to make a sustainable business. It's easy no doubt to convince ourselves that we are all safe in our ivory tower, but out there price and relative performance matter enormously. FWIW, over-engineering can be as much of a challenge for a company as its opposite and, anyway, a well-made (nb) polycarbonate product has its virtues such as light weight, strength and no rusting.

Sean282

Link Posted 17/04/2012 - 10:03
Well the price rises (on new stock) stopped me hmmming and haaaaaing over the 100mm macro ....deal done

johnriley

Link Posted 17/04/2012 - 10:06
mecrox wrote:
johnriley wrote:
I agree, Pentax products are generally better made than the norm. I expect that to cost money and it disturbs me that so many are only seemingly aware of price.

Other marques make cheap plastic cameras and lenses and they are welcome to do so. Frankly I wouldn't want to buy one. I also wouldn't want Pentax to be pressured into reducing standards.

I think the point is that some other marques make polycarbonate products in addition to highly priced high-end products whose performance and engineering are as good as any similar product made anywhere. If Pentax does not make more polycarbonate products of the K-r or DA 35mm f2.4 AL kind then it's unlikely to attract all that many new customers. The number of people prepared to drop several thousand on camera equipment is always going to be very small, and in a field with high R&D and component costs the number may easily become too small to make a sustainable business. It's easy no doubt to convince ourselves that we are all safe in our ivory tower, but out there price and relative performance matter enormously. FWIW, over-engineering can be as much of a challenge for a company as its opposite and, anyway, a well-made (nb) polycarbonate product has its virtues such as light weight, strength and no rusting.

I don't know about ivory towers, but you may notice a new lower cost range of Pentax lenses and also that the kit lenses are actually very good.

Clearly Pentax nor probably any other marque will ever be at the right price/quality point for everyone.
Best regards, John

Blythman

Link Posted 17/04/2012 - 10:29
My disappointment is a personal one. Was hoping to add the 21mm to my collection in the near future. I was suggesting to the missus that it was 300 and odd quid (even though the odd was another 79 if I recall correctly). Now at 500 and odd quid, I've got no chance for the forseeable
Alan


PPG
Flickr

Algernon

Link Posted 17/04/2012 - 11:03
Blythman wrote:
My disappointment is a personal one. Was hoping to add the 21mm to my collection in the near future. I was suggesting to the missus that it was 300 and odd quid (even though the odd was another 79 if I recall correctly). Now at 500 and odd quid, I've got no chance for the forseeable

Fotosense still list it at 389. I think it's free postage over 35 as well

link

399 at Mathers

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Half Man... Half Pentax ... Half Cucumber

Pentax K-1 + K-5 and some other stuff

Algi
Last Edited by Algernon on 17/04/2012 - 11:07

ChrisA

Link Posted 17/04/2012 - 11:15
I'm really staggered at the equanimity with which some people accept huge price hikes.

I don't dispute that companies have to make money. I don't dispute that prices have to go up. Nor do I dispute that Pentax build quality is good.

But prices that go up 30% or more in one go is not the normal sort of inflation we deal with all the time.

I'm amazed that even the most Pollyanna-esque of Pentax fans can just react along the lines of "ah that's Ok then".
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Pentax K-3, DA18-135, DA35 F2.4, DA17-70, DA55-300, FA28-200, A50 F1.7, A100 F4 Macro, A400 F5.6, Sigma 10-20 EXDC, 50-500 F4.5-6.3 APO DG OS Samsung flash SEF-54PZF(x2)
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DrOrloff

Link Posted 17/04/2012 - 11:18
That's a good point foneypony. It may well be that lens prices have simply been too low. However, my point is that Pentax would do well to offer that explanation. The Nikon 105mmm f2.8macro is 639, the 300mmf4 1000. That would offer a different perception, and I'm sure we can all do our own comparisons and consider ourselves lucky to have amassed a good value lens collection already. Sudden unexplained increases though are not good for customer relations.
You can see some of my photos here if you are so inclined

grahamcoad

Link Posted 17/04/2012 - 11:29
I noticed a similar debate going on in the US, their prices got put up a bit sooner than ours did, with howls or protest over there as well.

This would seem to be a world wide issue, and a simple explanation from Ricoh Pentax would be nice....
K-1, Sigma 12-24mm DG EX, Sigma 24-70mm DG EX, K-3, White K-01 with 40mm XS and white 35mm f2.4, SMC Pentax FA 1.8 31mm AL Limited, 43mm f1.9 Limited, 77mm f1.8 Limited, Sigma 17-50 f2.8, SMC Pentax DA* 50-135 f2.8, MX + SMC M 50mm f1.4, SMC A 50mm f1.4, SMC A 50mm f1.2, Spotmatic F 55mm f1.8, ES with 55mm f1.8 and 28mm f3.5, Program Plus (Chrome) with SMC A 50mm f1.7, Pentax 6x7, Leica ii, plus misc. odds and sods)

Blythman

Link Posted 17/04/2012 - 11:45
Algernon wrote:
Blythman wrote:
My disappointment is a personal one. Was hoping to add the 21mm to my collection in the near future. I was suggesting to the missus that it was 300 and odd quid (even though the odd was another 79 if I recall correctly). Now at 500 and odd quid, I've got no chance for the forseeable

Fotosense still list it at 389. I think it's free postage over 35 as well

link

399 at Mathers

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Hi Algi, sshhh. Still hoping I can get funds together for a Fotosense one before they go up. Don't tell anyone about it
Alan


PPG
Flickr

Shaky

Link Posted 17/04/2012 - 11:53
foneypony wrote:
when he sells a DSLR, in most cases the business makes 5% or less. More than this in considered very good....5%!!!!

Here's the thing foney, margins can be very highly misleading depending on whether you make things or are merely selling on.

That's why a much better measure or profitability is something known as Return on Capital Employed or ROCE, where CE is the invested capital required to support the business.

If you friend has got the camera in stock on a sale or return basis his capital employed i 0 making his ROCE at a 5% sales margin infinite. Pretty good I'd say.
Quote:
These companies are having a hard time, the global giant Sony, $5 Billion losses

. . .from TVs mainly and nothing to do with cameras. Well documented.

But you're right. Those poor global companies. They need our help. Must save and plunge every penny into Pentax kit to keep them afloat.

japers45

Link Posted 17/04/2012 - 12:01
ChrisA wrote:
I'm really staggered at the equanimity with which some people accept huge price hikes.

I don't dispute that companies have to make money. I don't dispute that prices have to go up. Nor do I dispute that Pentax build quality is good.

But prices that go up 30% or more in one go is not the normal sort of inflation we deal with all the time.

I'm amazed that even the most Pollyanna-esque of Pentax fans can just react along the lines of "ah that's Ok then".

nail on head

cabstar

Link Posted 17/04/2012 - 12:05
I think the main reason for the price increases is due to the rising cost of materials, look how valuable scrap metal is at the moment, this is due to the closures of many steelworks, forcing the price up, same with gold we have all seen the we buy your gold adverts, gold is used in PCB's & the biggest increase is fuel, not just petrol, but gas, electricity etc & thats before we even talk about earthquakes or floods around Asia.

Combine all these events & companies like Pentax have no option but to increase prices, look at how the hard drive industry has had to deal with the floods & the affect this has had on prices.

Price increases are always followed by price cuts, this happens time & time again, it was only a couple of years ago the DA* 50-135mm & the DA* 16-50mm had massive increases and are now nearly back to where they where before.
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Currently on a Pentax hiatus until an FF Pentax is released
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