iPad or iPad Which One?

That is because of the popularity of Apple products. Again, for me that says more about the success of their marketing than the quality of the hardware / software.

We have Mac's on school and I've worked on them, and I've played with the iPhone several times and at least the iPhone can't impress me.
You talked about content but I can't see the value of most of that content because the quality is pretty low.

Okay it might surprise you then that there are viruses for the Mac then and even Apple advice you to use a virus protection program now a days...
His success has make it a bigger target and the believe of the users that they are save for it makes them even more ideal, almost non of you have a virus scanner so if just one virus spread himself a bit better then the rest how long do you think it would take most of you would have it. Really get a viruses scanner and not just for yourself but also for others since even if Mac is immune for PC virus they can still spread it.
Don't get me wrong MAC is a very secure system but to think it's 100% bulletproof against viruses is a big mistake.

Also jail braked iPhone have viruses now so that's also only a matter of time and it's also getting worth your time as virus maker to invest in getting a virus on the iPhone.

Also funny to say if you read some comments here then some think the Apple users are brain-washed, I don't think so though at least not the users here since you know what you buy it for but for example many of my school mates have an iPod just because there friends have one, but hey those will follow every hype so they are irrelevant and I would not want to discuss that matter since it's quite pointless.
Also I've stated why I don't use Apple products a few pages ago so look it up if you want and want to discuss that.
What you think is great I don't think is so great and we probably never going to agree while we would agree with almost any point but our priorities simply lay a bit different.

About the reader, that's just a feature.
My phone and many other HTC can detect tilt, I'll look for it on the web to see if there is something like that, I'm sure some would have thought it would be handy to have on a smartphone and copy it.

Robbie
What's so wrong on having an opinion, things I said aren't really that different I do have blow some things up and you proved things weren't so black and white or right that I suggested and well that is logical of course.

Also it brings a smile on my face how 4 people now are trying to convince me how good Apple is.
Still like I said before in page 3 (or 2) that it seems you buy the rights to use the device not own it is something I do not agree too and if that don't change then no Apple products for me, and it's not that they are bad products it's just that, nothing more nothing less.
Like said I'm thinking of putting OSX on my PC because I see the possibilities of the OS but I do it on PC and not on a Mac for that reason. Also since iPhone does not give you something over a smartphone I don't have a reason to get one.
And I love to thinker with my PC and with MAC you are getting problems with that and the same is true for computers of other companies since they seal there computers now a days.
On my smartphone I now also run some software to go a bit deeper into the device and you can do great things with that, Apple would get me arrest for such things

Danny, we have more in coming then that you think if you forget the money matter in your last comment though.
I only have an HTC and keys in my pocket and that's more then enough.

I did have a look at the Cowon S9 and almost bought one in the shop but I bought the DA*50-135 at that time, a far better choice in my opinion

When I bought my HTC diamond I could have waited a month and went for the iPhone who would then be at sale, I must say at the time I've done the right thing. The content on the iPhone was limited and they were giving developers a hard time allowing products on their device and then the connection problem came up. They first blamed the GSM net for it but later it became know it was the iPhone, the antennae was okay I believe it where some protocols if I remember correctly.
I remember a school mate of my had almost no internet in the train while I had internet for almost the whole trip.
The iPhone seemed to have aged properly or are they still weak with their connection, I thought they have solved it and the quality of the content has grown quite a bit only good news for you users but I got everything I need so no reason to jump ship and iPhone hardly offer something more.
Well yes they do offer something more but not something that I need or want.

But aren't we going very of topic here, we were talking about the iPad right?

I was toying with the idea that it isn't so far fetch that you could be able to have a dual boot with Linux, for me this make it a lot more interesting device since the hardware and styling of it do look very good and the limited OS is great for when you're on the road.
Although Apple probably have some rules that don't allow you to do that... if they write it in the EULA like they are doing now then of course that isn't a problem for some

No, but if the hardware/software were terrible, then all the marketing in the world wouldn't help.

The fact of the matter is that the hardware and software only has to be good enough, which it is (more than good enough in my opinion).

After that a whole host of other variables come into play, content, accessibility, convenience, cachet, etc.

If there was alterntaives which offered a better all round product for the masses than the iPod (in the case of music players), then the public would be buying that. They're not, they're buying the iPod. And iPhone.

If you want to go down that line, the original DOS wasn't written by Microsoft (or Bill Gates and cronies), it was purchased off the guy who wrote it as BG an Co. needed an operating system as they had promised to deliver one. Q-DOS literally being quick and dirty operating system.

Or so I saw on a documentary.

Absolutely spot on.

I'm not trying to convince you of anything other than the fact your arguments have gone from paper thin, to factually incorrect, to ridiculous.

I'm not a pro-Apple person. I have owned an iMac, iPod and iPhone but don't anymore. I'm not so blinkered though, to suggest that their products are useless.

And as someone who has a lot of daily contact with mobile phones, promoting the HTC (Touch) Diamond as a great device is quite laughable. The same goes for anything based on the WinMo platform.

Go ahead make a list and please put them into content with the rest around them so don't pick one line out of a whole comment.

Great for you Robbie and I've not said such a thing.

And I have not said it either, but please show me where I said it though and I'll stand corrected.

ps. maybe the way you read my comments make it all sound ridiculous to you, sorry that I write so strange then I'll write in Dutch for you from now on if that helps?

But again, I'm not saying it's terrible necessarily; that's a straw man argument. I think my position could be summed as saying that there is often or usually a better alternative to an Apple product, and it's usually less expensive (and in the case of the iMacs I've had the misfortune to have to work with, a lot more reliable).

You seem to have a lot more faith in the judgement of the public than I do. It's partly a fashion thing, as well as marketing, though.

That's right; it was adapted from 86-DOS written by Tim Paterson.

You won't find me defending Microsoft products, either - although I do think that for most general users, a PC running XP is a more effective desktop solution than a Mac, especially in terms of cost.

Stefan, we're not trying to convince you. We're trying to stop you spouting a load of untrue nonsense about the iPad. You've made literally dozens of factual errors in this thread.

You say that as if that isn't a valid reason for purchase.

When people buy a portable music player they don't want the best audio quality. That may not be congruent with what you'd expect, but it's the truth. How do we know? Because if they did, the iPod wouldn't sell as much as it did and you wouldn't see as many pairs of "kit" headphones in use.

This means other variables are at play (as I stated).

Fashion is one of these variables, particularly amongst female consumers, and seeing as how over half the people on this planet are female, would it not make sense to cater for them?

I bought my partner an mp3 player for Christmas. I didn't buy her a Cowan S9 (or whatever it is called), I bought her an iPod Nano. Why? Because it's small & sleek (fits in all of her bags), purple (doesn't look like a "man gadget"), has a simple user interface, took me 5 minutes to show her how to use it, and has a readily available supply of accessories. In other words, it was the best product available for her. Now it may not be the best gadget for a techie who fully embraces open-sourcing and is uber-competent on computers, but rest assured there are more people like my girlfriend in the market for an mp3 player than there are people like the techie.

I think maybe when you're saying a "better alternative" you're making that judgement from your own perspective, considering your own needs.

Horses for courses really.

It depends what the person using the computer wants to do. Worth bearing in mind that Macs tend to come bundled with more "out of the box", plus there should be a premium because at the end of the day they generally do look and feel nicer than a PC and are more space efficient.

Don't get me wrong, I don't have any loyalites in this argument. I have in the past owned an iMac, iPod and iPhone, but at the moment use a custom built PC running Vista, a Samsung P200 running Vista, a Nokia 5800 and a Nokia E71.

The one thing you'll notice missing from my past and current line-ups though is a Windows Mobile device, and with good reason. Worst operating system ever...

Ah okay, thank you for stopping me.

I said I got it very wrong with the iWork thing but was the rest so far off from the point, it all depends on your point of view with most things.

Like I said to Robbie try to pin something on me, most things I said was in the form of I wished it was like this and that I don't see it succeed because others failed before it and if it succeed it mostly because of marketing and the hype and you've not put any evidence that that wouldn't be the case, neither can I prove it that it is going to be the case so no real point going on about that one again.

That's because that are accused of having a monopoly position and it's not right to see the Apple can get away with more things.
Although Microsoft did some very bad things also so it's choosing the lesser of the bad ones... Linux

Well it's bad indeed, I'm glad most have make a shell around it and it does run now pretty well, at least I don't have any problems so far after 2 years.
I'm now looking at Android phones, the OS looks interesting but I never tried them and I need to look up the bad things about them.

I don't think it's a very good reason for an MP3 player or a phone, but whether it is or it isn't, the important point is not to confuse it with the usability or quality of the product.

No, I don't necessarily mean that. There are, for example, plenty of user-friendly and highly functional MP3 players, and smart phones.