If that is so then all colour management would be pointless. The profiling makes sure that, say, RGB(255,0,0) looks as intended on all the monitors that are profiled. Of course not only that colour but all colours on the targets.
Thus on calibrated monitors/PCs the image looks absolutely equal. (I do appreciate, though, that there might be still minute differences.)

I think that no one in this thread said that it wouldn't work as well in CMYK. The only thing that has been said is that it is an unnecessary step to convert in CMYK. It does work (as you know).

And both of us are right.

The result is not unknown as in the process of profiling all components of your system you have ascertained that the printer puts out exactly the colours you see on the monitor. Thus all corrections you make on your PC/monitor are printed in the same way on your paper.

And that is why you calibrate your system and then do your corrections on the PC/monitor.


Well, I do use AdobeRGB in camera as it is the slightly bigger colour space and gives more leeway in post processing. Also JPG only gives 8 bit so some of the inherent dynamic of the camera is lost when using 8 bit files.

Exactly. And if you have a colour managed system then it is taking care of that. You send your image in whatever colour space it is coded in and the colour management system takes care that it is interpreted by the printer in the right way.

And all we say is that the step of conversion from RGB to CMYK is not necessary when all components of the system are properly colour managed.

Yes, that sounds right.

That sounds like a gamma mismatch to me. But BW can be tricky for any printer.

This means that your colour management is not set up completely right.
Edit: Forgot to add: And this means that the output is not foreseeable when sending it to a print service, even if that service is using proper colour management.

As I said earlier, as long as it works for you it's fine. For the rest of us it works without a conversion to CMYK.

Ciao,
Prieni

Well, the point of colour management systems and profiling your monitor is that on three different monitors you get the same image. (Results in the real world may vary.)

If you and the printing shops use colour management in the right ways then the three prints should not be different.

All of them.

Well, you don't have a choice but have to leave part of the workflow to the hardware. Who else will convert the bits and bytes to colourful ink drops on the paper?

That's why you do post processing, to get the resulting image to match the image that you imagine (pun intended) as closely to the resulting print as possible.

Prieni

Yes, the printer does use CMYK in it's output (or CMYK+other inks, sometimes referred to as CcMmYK). However, I think the printer drivers are written to take RGB-type colours and convert to CMYK (or CcMmYK) internally. That means that your CMYK image is converted to an RGB-like colour profile and sent to the printer where it is converted to the printers ink colours.

In that respect converting to CMYK before printing doesn't really make anything more controllable.

It's very well to use AdobeRGB in camera, I'm surprised, though, to read that you calibrate the monitor especially for that. Surely the monitor calibration doesn't depend on whether you use sRGB, AdobeRGB or any other colour space. Calibration creates the profile for your monitor. The colours of your image (be it sRGB or AdobeRGB) are then converted into the monitor profile colours for viewing (while your post processing software does all operations on colour in the selected working colour space (presumably AdobeRGB in your case).

You can send your files for printing without problems, if the print service uses calibrated hardware (and many bog standard printing services do not). The ones that do even provide colour profiles for different papers to soft proof before sending the images to them.
One general problem remains, that is that the colour systems of monitor and printing are physically different. The monitor is using an additive colour model while the printer uses a subtractive colour model. And that is why you never get exactly the same on the print that you see on the monitor. All that colour management is to get as close as possible.

Bottom line is, though: If it works well for you then don't change your system.

Prieni

Nice set! In Germany they are also known under the name May bug (Maikäfer) and they were quite common in the old days (i.e. in the 50's and early 60's). From childhood I only remember a few instances of seeing one.

From the shots I like #3 the best, though the antennae in #4 are even more impressive.

Prieni

Thanks Smeggy! For the benefit of the young folk on the forum: This is a book. We used it in the old day to read all kinds of stories and facts. This was, of course, before we had computers, smartphones and tablets. The letters were printed with ink on paper and once printed couldn't be altered (a kind of single use display, it always shows the same content, which may seem a bit pointless these days).

Depicted here is a book seen from the side with single pages folded back to the middle of the book (called spine; that's another term many people these days don't know anymore). The example in the shot, btw. is a PhD thesis in applied physics (not that this really matters).

Prieni

P.S.: Smeggy, I don't think that you are too young to know books from own experience and I appreciate that without any scale it might be hard to figure out what it is. I just couldn't resist

I find the 105 quite sharp at 1:1 as well as at lower magnifications.
These are recent examples:
[IMG]http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t5/Prieni/4%20in%20a%20row/2011-04%20Diagonals/_PRI1539sm.jpg[/IMG]

This one was taken wide open:
[IMG]http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t5/Prieni/4%20in%20a%20row/_PRI0801.jpg[/IMG]

And this one with aperture closed at 16
[IMG]http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t5/Prieni/4%20in%20a%20row/_PRI1053sm.jpg[/IMG]

If you want to make sure that the lens is o.k. try setting it up on the tripod and focus carefully. Then do a series of exposures with slightly changed focus distances. If one of them is sharp you know that the lens is ok.
Prieni

Sorry for taking a bit of time for this, sometimes business trips don't leave room for real life...
Ok, here is one that really had me working hard to get the most out of it. The result of that effort is now hanging on our 'holiday gallery' in the corridor.

The DNG file (*ist D) is found here (4.5 MB)

A 'straight from cam' TIF file is found here. (31 MB)

The full sized (yes, 3008 x 2008 was the *istD resolution!) JPG version you find here (this should be of limited use, though, as you can see that it is a bit darkish).

And here is the reduced size out of camera JPG:
[IMG]http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t5/Prieni/Pentax%20user/IMGP8390sm.jpg[/IMG]


As I was a bit late in setting the competition theme I suggest to end the entry period on 1800 UK time, Tuesday, 10/5/2011

Hope you have fun!

Prieni

First time lucky...

Thanks ag!
Right now I'm sitting in a workshop in Venice and I will have to go through some RAWs when I'm back on Sunday. So sit tight until Easter-Sunday...

Enjoyed seeing the different versions, good fun and well done everybody!

Prieni

Wrong! Even £10000 doesn't guarantee you a single great image. You've shown proof of the fact that good equipment doesn't automatically make for a good image.

I do smell something, but it certainly is not coffee...

Prieni

Here is my attempt:

[IMG]http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t5/Prieni/Pentax%20user/Nemrutcrater.jpg[/IMG]
In SilkyPix changed WB, Gamma, black level, contrast and contrast centre, CA. Then output as TIF. TIF image loaded in PS. Export as 8-bit TIF, in Corel PhotoPaint applied local equalisation and imported that as another layer on top in Photoshop, layer mode soft light, 25% opacity.
Curves adjustment layer (mainly pulling down the dark bits a little further), gradient layer from a very dark yellow to transparent for the top portion, layer mode soft light, 49% opacity.
Another curves layer for the top portion again and a colour balance layer on top to adjust some discolouration in the top portion (selected by the layer mask).
Converted to sRGB, re-sized, sharpened.

Prieni