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Comment by Greytop posted on Olympus got it right, Pentax got it wrong at 28/01/2013 - 22:06
Algernon wrote:
Europe is more of a traditional DSLR market
and Japanese Sales are published weekly so
they are up to date.
The camera industry have decided that both cameras
Q and OM-D go in the same group and coming 79th out
of 80 can't possibly be described as "getting it right"
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To be honest I think you've missed my point Europe is more of a traditional DSLR market
and Japanese Sales are published weekly so
they are up to date.
The camera industry have decided that both cameras
Q and OM-D go in the same group and coming 79th out
of 80 can't possibly be described as "getting it right"
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1) Thankfully Japan is not a microcosm of the worldwide market, it's very different for a myriad of consumer items including cameras.
Just because sales figures are produced on a weekly basis doesn't make it more relevant, least of all from a Worldwide perspective.
So as an indication of how a particular camera brand/model is perceived or how successful it is, a single domestic market doesn't cut it I'm afraid.
2) Ignoring the skewed market for a moment, would you think it fair to compare sales of a budget D-SLR with that of a full frame model as a basis of how successful one was with respect to the other?
Would you expect that the budget D-SLR purchaser to be the same guy that purchases the full frame model?
Equally it's quite clear that the Q (neat that it is) is not an OM-D/GH-3 competitor.
I'm only trying to be fair and straight down the middle here rather than cherry pick statistics and trends from one particular domestic market as the basis for a cogent argument.
Comment by Greytop posted on Olympus got it right, Pentax got it wrong at 28/01/2013 - 18:40
Algernon wrote:
cameras sold in Japan for a few weeks now and the Q was
in the Top 10 for the month of Dec. It's currently scattered all over
the chart because of different packages. If they had less
packages it could well be in the Top 10. But 33, 35, 36 and
37 in the Top 40 isn't bad. 35 is actually the Q10.
It doesn't look like Olympus did get it right...
trying to con it's users into thinking it was the
equivalent of a FULL FRAME OM
Just how does a person eat their words?
Can we all come and watch?
http://bcnranking.jp/category/subcategory_0008.html
Q No: 10 in December 2012 Sales
http://bcnranking.jp/category/subcategory_0008_month.html
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Why look at the Japanese market? it's always been considered a slightly odd demographic for camera choice / sales. Worldwide sales would be much more representative.Galoot wrote:
Olympus took out the OM-D, a digital up-date of the OM - film cameras.
Pentax took out the 'Q' then the K-01, what a waste of time.
Pentax should have spent money on a version of the LX, a digital version would have been 10 out of ten !!!
Well the OM-D has been selling around No 79 out of the top 80Olympus took out the OM-D, a digital up-date of the OM - film cameras.
Pentax took out the 'Q' then the K-01, what a waste of time.
Pentax should have spent money on a version of the LX, a digital version would have been 10 out of ten !!!
cameras sold in Japan for a few weeks now and the Q was
in the Top 10 for the month of Dec. It's currently scattered all over
the chart because of different packages. If they had less
packages it could well be in the Top 10. But 33, 35, 36 and
37 in the Top 40 isn't bad. 35 is actually the Q10.
It doesn't look like Olympus did get it right...
trying to con it's users into thinking it was the
equivalent of a FULL FRAME OM
Just how does a person eat their words?
Can we all come and watch?
http://bcnranking.jp/category/subcategory_0008.html
Q No: 10 in December 2012 Sales
http://bcnranking.jp/category/subcategory_0008_month.html
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Furthermore from a mirrorless camera perspective you are comparing different products. The OM-D is much more of premium device along side the GH-3, where as the little Pentax would be more aligned to the Oly E-PL tier.
Comment by Greytop posted on Olympus got it right, Pentax got it wrong at 28/01/2013 - 13:30
johnriley wrote:
Funnily enough, Olympus User is full of people who use Olympus!
Spot on John Quote:
There must be a reason, why every one in this forum uses a Pentax Camera.
Yes, it's because you're on Pentax User! A site dedicated to help Pentax Users with their Pentax photography.There must be a reason, why every one in this forum uses a Pentax Camera.
Funnily enough, Olympus User is full of people who use Olympus!
Comment by Greytop posted on Olympus got it right, Pentax got it wrong at 28/01/2013 - 13:09
piotro wrote:
Where Olympus won is novelty and fresh thinking. OM-D despite smaller sensor seems to be delivering very good IQ and noise performance (judging by samples and tests), this is a step forward for these m4/3 sensors. AF speed and precision seems to be one of the best on the market among mirrorless cameras (and possibly some of DSLRs as well) - where Fuji failed unfortunately (not to say that they product lacks in novelty, just not here).
Seen here many times in regards to Pentax is argument about using manual lenses, come on Gents, it may work for a group of people, in some situations, but it is not what is going to sell system to wider audience, not what is going to make this product usable in all situations where people may want to use it, simply this is not enough.
Pentax can't also rely on the legacy of old lenses and neglect need of introducing new lenses that are missing from portfolio and could perform well against competition, thanks to that they are still niche product, unfortunately not because of great qualities, features packaged into not very well known name - just because system doesn't compare that well to others for large group of potential users.
Some of you may think it is a bit of overstatement - but exactly in the way some of you try to say system is good enough because you can find some old, manual lenses on second-hand market.
I think Pentax has to take a brave decision and if next generation product (i.e. why carry that massive mirror box as people used for many years ) needs new mount, new lenses, new design - just do it (hopefully they are already working on it and will surprise us i.e. next year), just don't stop half way and produce competitive portfolio of lenses and cameras, otherwise it will be a fail.
Perhaps Pentax should consider joining the m4/3rds consortium. Where Olympus won is novelty and fresh thinking. OM-D despite smaller sensor seems to be delivering very good IQ and noise performance (judging by samples and tests), this is a step forward for these m4/3 sensors. AF speed and precision seems to be one of the best on the market among mirrorless cameras (and possibly some of DSLRs as well) - where Fuji failed unfortunately (not to say that they product lacks in novelty, just not here).
Seen here many times in regards to Pentax is argument about using manual lenses, come on Gents, it may work for a group of people, in some situations, but it is not what is going to sell system to wider audience, not what is going to make this product usable in all situations where people may want to use it, simply this is not enough.
Pentax can't also rely on the legacy of old lenses and neglect need of introducing new lenses that are missing from portfolio and could perform well against competition, thanks to that they are still niche product, unfortunately not because of great qualities, features packaged into not very well known name - just because system doesn't compare that well to others for large group of potential users.
Some of you may think it is a bit of overstatement - but exactly in the way some of you try to say system is good enough because you can find some old, manual lenses on second-hand market.
I think Pentax has to take a brave decision and if next generation product (i.e. why carry that massive mirror box as people used for many years ) needs new mount, new lenses, new design - just do it (hopefully they are already working on it and will surprise us i.e. next year), just don't stop half way and produce competitive portfolio of lenses and cameras, otherwise it will be a fail.
I'd love to see Pentax m4/3rds body in the line up.
Comment by Greytop posted on Olympus got it right, Pentax got it wrong at 28/01/2013 - 11:03
You can't argue that the K20D isn't a lovely camera
Comment by Greytop posted on K20d or K7?? at 16/01/2013 - 14:58
Is it really anecdotal?
Why would pretty much all major the camera manufacturers invest serious money trying to hop on the mirrorless interchangeable lens camera bandwagon?
Even Pentax has had a couple of goes at it and no doubt future offerings may be closer to the mark.
As I said before it is a bit of fun but there is also an underlying trend going on, you really don't have to look far on other photography enthusiast sites to see this.
Why would pretty much all major the camera manufacturers invest serious money trying to hop on the mirrorless interchangeable lens camera bandwagon?
Even Pentax has had a couple of goes at it and no doubt future offerings may be closer to the mark.
As I said before it is a bit of fun but there is also an underlying trend going on, you really don't have to look far on other photography enthusiast sites to see this.
Comment by Greytop posted on DPR count the votes. at 02/01/2013 - 13:53
Pentaxophile wrote:
The poll has nothing to do with sales, period. It's the best camera, not the biggest selling. The two aren't necessarily linked, or you'd conclude that some crummy Vivitar P&S sold for £29.99 in Tesco is a better camera than, say, a 645D....
The poll has nothing to do with sales, period. It's the best camera, not the biggest selling. The two aren't necessarily linked, or you'd conclude that some crummy Vivitar P&S sold for £29.99 in Tesco is a better camera than, say, a 645D....
Pentaxophile wrote:
... It's not even 'best image quality'... there are other parameters like innovation, usability, design which come into play... which you have to admit the EM5 has in spades.
I 100% agree on both counts.... It's not even 'best image quality'... there are other parameters like innovation, usability, design which come into play... which you have to admit the EM5 has in spades.
Comment by Greytop posted on DPR count the votes. at 02/01/2013 - 13:26
Algernon wrote:
The fact that Pentax sold twice as many Q's (No: 8 ) in Japan
last year (2012) as Olympus sold OM-D EM-5's (No: 12) shows
what nonsense this poll is.
The K-30 (13th DSLR's) and K-5 (14th DSLR's) both
individually sold more than the other
two (15th & 20th)
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I'm not sure that this poll has anything to do with sales in Japan, I've looked for a link or connection but can't find one The fact that Pentax sold twice as many Q's (No: 8 ) in Japan
last year (2012) as Olympus sold OM-D EM-5's (No: 12) shows
what nonsense this poll is.
The K-30 (13th DSLR's) and K-5 (14th DSLR's) both
individually sold more than the other
two (15th & 20th)
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johnriley wrote:
Polls are generally useless as they are only answered by people interested in some aspect of the poll. There is no randomness in a poll that leaves participation up to the voter.
All it can really be looked upon is as a bit of fun.
I agree that to a degree it is a bit of fun but I think it would be churlish to suggest there isn't also an underlying trend. Polls are generally useless as they are only answered by people interested in some aspect of the poll. There is no randomness in a poll that leaves participation up to the voter.
All it can really be looked upon is as a bit of fun.
Compact and genuinely small/light kit as a tool to produce quality images is drawing more and more enthusiast and pro-photographers.
Comment by Greytop posted on DPR count the votes. at 02/01/2013 - 11:43
An interesting result none-the-less.
I tend not to subscribe to the conspiracy theory mind set
I tend not to subscribe to the conspiracy theory mind set
Comment by Greytop posted on DPR count the votes. at 01/01/2013 - 18:54
By the way I've no gripe with Pentax as mentioned earlier I would be one of the first to consider another Pentax if they adopted the m4/3rds standard.
Algi you would make an excellent politician
I see you've again side stepped my points to a greater or lesser degree
I would firstly differ on a similarities between the World and Japanese domestic market, not so much in terms of what is sold but what the Japanese punter spends his or her hard earned on.
And if we are to draw comparisons in the Japanese market, lets select a mirroless camera that more closely competes the Q in terms of features and price such as the Oly Pen-lite(s) or Lumix GF-3.
I wont go on to mention sales percentages
Cherry picking, we can all do it.