Yes sorry Martin had a rough day yesterday

Pete that's true what you mean but really read the last link I posted, this link and then you can see where all the confusing comes from.
The bokeh is surely out of focus blur but only a part of it and the word is here since 1992 but only recently when it is used a lot without the proper meaning of the words the original (true) meaning shifted, were Bokeh is used to define the whole blurred background instead of a part of it.

A word means whatever the author (any author) wants it to mean.
So if I use the word "car" and I mean ball then that is right?
... I wonder why I need to learn a language at all
... or do you mean something else with the words in the sentence:
No harm intended Pete, I got your point

Here you go https://www.pentaxuser.com/forum/topic/Tamron-SP-AF-70200mm-F28-Di-LD-IF-MACRO-13053

Nice shots Amin but only two went over 135mm
Have you ever used it indoor, I'm curious about your findings there.

Me too but wiki worded it so nicely and not only wiki went against John thoughts.

Non of the technical term are important while taking a photo but it is important when discussing them
So better get everyone on one line what something means then have two definitions for a word.

Agreed with most and recently is more then 10 years ago
Still the true meaning of the words can be interrupted differently by many, but that doesn't make it right to use it wrongly.

The dictionary says clearly something different like all the other dictonaries btw, they are right but not fully.

Read this, this a simple read so don't worry
http://toothwalker.org/optics/bokeh.html
He explains what I mean, by focusing and analyzing a single point of light you can see how it renders the out of focus blur.
So is that site (toothwalker) with agreement to everyone?

And that is the start of LBA... prepare your girlfriend already most of the time they don't like it

It's truly wonderful to know you have opted for the K-M and already get some amazing results out of it. Both kit lenses are fairly good and really not bad so I'm sure you would enjoy them.

For the fast prime lens, you can look at the 50mm lenses. You can get them very cheap second hand or reasonable cheap new.
You can also look at the limited lenses, maybe a DA35 macro. Not the fastest lens with f/2.8 but surely a fun lens to have and not too expensive.

John then you probable have the meaning of the term bokeh wrong.

Wiki
Bokeh (derived from Japanese, a noun boke 暈け, meaning "blur" or "haze") is a photographic term referring to the appearance of point of light sources in an out-of-focus area of an image produced by a camera lens using a shallow depth of field.

When you look back at the links that I've posted it only went about that and not the whole background. If you can prove that bokeh isn't about a point of light then I stand fully correct of course.

Edumad had it quite right with his photos.



Is you can see it's the bright ring bokeh and it is highly distracting and not any good, just like he said.




This photo has the average bokeh, the evenly lighted highlights.
It's really less distracting then the first photo because of that and it has a nice and pleasant effect.
Can you imaging the bokeh being the bright ring ones, they would have been distracting here as well.




This one has the good bokeh with the bright core and smooth edges it seems.
You can't find a hard edge really anywhere.




This one has the average bokeh.
with some lines in the background you can see it's build up with with all of those highlight circles (bokeh) you can hardly define the edges between the circles but you can see the edge of the line quite clearly and the lines are evenly filled.

Mike you think too much

I was just making the point that you need to fear you neighbour and relatives more then the stranger in the park taking photos.

Child sexual abuse is a form of child abuse in which an adult or older adolescent abuses a child for sexual stimulation. Forms of CSA include asking or pressuring a child to engage in sexual activities (regardless of the outcome), indecent exposure of the genitals to a child, displaying pornography to a child, actual sexual contact against a child, or using a child to produce child pornography.
The numbers come from wikipedia and are American numbers taken from multiple researches. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Child_sexual_abuse

I did my best John, here are the photos.
The arrangement was for glasses and a flashgun right of me to make highlights in the glass.
Tried to get the same frame with all of them but didn't wanted to spend to many time perfecting it so forgive me that.
all lenses wide open

image order is:
full frame
first glass
3th glass
4th glass

DA18-55 at 35mm
[IMG]http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/kk244/Anvh/_IGP2887.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/kk244/Anvh/_IGP2887-2.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/kk244/Anvh/_IGP2887-3.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/kk244/Anvh/_IGP2887-4.jpg[/IMG]

DA40
[IMG]http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/kk244/Anvh/_IGP2884.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/kk244/Anvh/_IGP2884-2.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/kk244/Anvh/_IGP2884-3.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/kk244/Anvh/_IGP2884-4.jpg[/IMG]

DA*50-135 108mm
[IMG]http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/kk244/Anvh/_IGP2882.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/kk244/Anvh/_IGP2882-2.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/kk244/Anvh/_IGP2882-3.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/kk244/Anvh/_IGP2882-4.jpg[/IMG]

DFA 100mm
[IMG]http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/kk244/Anvh/_IGP2883.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/kk244/Anvh/_IGP2883-2.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/kk244/Anvh/_IGP2883-3.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/kk244/Anvh/_IGP2883-4.jpg[/IMG]

Sorry I really need to go so won't comment on the bokeh.
the first glass bokeh always looks pretty good but the 3th glass the all look pretty bad.
4th glass looks like an improvement but still not so good

If the cops got called every time wouldn't it then work the other way.
I mean after family photographer number 100 questioned they would slack off while something really happened.

Approximately 15% to 25% of women and 5% to 15% of men were sexually abused when they were children. Most sexual abuse offenders are acquainted with their victims; approximately 30% are relatives of the child, most often brothers, fathers, uncles or cousins; around 60% are other acquaintances such as friends of the family, babysitters, or neighbors; strangers are the offenders in approximately 10% of child sexual abuse cases.

So if you neigherboor is shooting photos of your kids there is around the 10% change he is after your kids and 2% if it's a stranger... and the parents that call the police about photographs taken of their kids are 3 times more likely to abuse the child then the stranger taking photographs would.
Sorry just some interesting facts not to get everyone paranoid.

I wonder how many time the parent in question is also questioned.

With wide angle you mostly shoot things that doesn't move, what is the challange in that
And what do you call 18mm???

It's interesting to see that most are still close to the classic range but with digital we have the 1.5x crop so we are using lenses that are longer now a days.