Enthusiastic photographer looking to make next step
Posted 25/06/2009 - 12:00 - Helpful Comment
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I never had to go through this issue as I went for a Canon S1 IS way back when and then upgraded to the Pentax K10D. There was no K-m at the time but there were the K100 and older DSLR's I was looking for something that would offer me room for growth and it just happened that the K10 was the best camera Pentax had to offer at the time and it was not that expensive. I had paid about £350 for my S1 IS so the £450 (with kit lens) was a reasonable upgrade a few years later. Had Pentax had more advanced SLR options (like now) it may have taken me longer to decide.
I would personally try and go for the DSLR option as I think if you are an enthusiast as you mentioned then it will offer you more options in the near future and going forward. There is a slightly steeper learning curve though but you can always set the program mode to Green and it works just like a Point and Shoot. The G10 is not a bad camera and I would but one but only for occasions where I may be going to a party and don't want a bigger SLR or if I am doing something that may potentially cause damage t my camera. For example, I went to a rather rowdy party the other week and took my Canon as I didn't know what nature of drink might have been spilt on the camera. Also, when I was in Costa Rica two years ago I opted for the Canon when I was zip gliding at 400m above the tree tops and kayaking on the rivers. So both types of cameras have their uses in my opinion.
I would go for the K10 or K20 if you can as it is not much more expensive but is more advanced. The Classified Adverts forum on the site has some good deals on both. albeit second hand. They are not as new as the K-m though but I think thry will give you many months of features to play with. They are also more akin to an advanced DSLR so the learning curve going forward (to K7 say) won't be so steep.
Hope that helps and good luck.
I would personally try and go for the DSLR option as I think if you are an enthusiast as you mentioned then it will offer you more options in the near future and going forward. There is a slightly steeper learning curve though but you can always set the program mode to Green and it works just like a Point and Shoot. The G10 is not a bad camera and I would but one but only for occasions where I may be going to a party and don't want a bigger SLR or if I am doing something that may potentially cause damage t my camera. For example, I went to a rather rowdy party the other week and took my Canon as I didn't know what nature of drink might have been spilt on the camera. Also, when I was in Costa Rica two years ago I opted for the Canon when I was zip gliding at 400m above the tree tops and kayaking on the rivers. So both types of cameras have their uses in my opinion.
I would go for the K10 or K20 if you can as it is not much more expensive but is more advanced. The Classified Adverts forum on the site has some good deals on both. albeit second hand. They are not as new as the K-m though but I think thry will give you many months of features to play with. They are also more akin to an advanced DSLR so the learning curve going forward (to K7 say) won't be so steep.
Hope that helps and good luck.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/_cypher/
Pentax K10D, 50, 18-55, 28-70, 100, Sigma 10-20, Tamron 18-250, 28-75
Pentax K10D, 50, 18-55, 28-70, 100, Sigma 10-20, Tamron 18-250, 28-75
Posted 25/06/2009 - 12:10 - Helpful Comment
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This is a tough one, since at the end of the day it is all down to preference and taste. You may have answered your own questions here anyway, but I guess it partly comes down to scaleability and the KM is part of a 'system' but the Canon is standalone. So if this is your entry to a system approach and see yourself growing your kit as your hobby grows then obviously the KM, but if you think you won't take it beyond a well specified point and shoot then stick with the Canon.
For me, ergonomics play a part and what feels good in my hand matters, for others its picture quality or user interface or autofocus speed or frames per second etc etc. So really noone else can advise you since only you know what your hot buttons are and what things matter to you in your choice.
For me It was an easier choice since I already had Pentax film SLRs and some lenses so the backward compatibility means I can grow the hobby with extra lenses without necessarily breaking the bank. I don't think you would have this with any other DSLR system. Also I like the small form factor of Pentaxes, always have compared to bigger heavier cameras. But I can really see the attraction of the Canon and if I wasn't so hell bent on a system with interchangeable lenses a damn good point and shoot like this Canon would have made a lot of sense.
There - no real bias there I hope
For me, ergonomics play a part and what feels good in my hand matters, for others its picture quality or user interface or autofocus speed or frames per second etc etc. So really noone else can advise you since only you know what your hot buttons are and what things matter to you in your choice.
For me It was an easier choice since I already had Pentax film SLRs and some lenses so the backward compatibility means I can grow the hobby with extra lenses without necessarily breaking the bank. I don't think you would have this with any other DSLR system. Also I like the small form factor of Pentaxes, always have compared to bigger heavier cameras. But I can really see the attraction of the Canon and if I wasn't so hell bent on a system with interchangeable lenses a damn good point and shoot like this Canon would have made a lot of sense.
There - no real bias there I hope
FILM - Pentax: LX, K2 - 24/2.8, 40/2.8, 50/1.4, 120/2.8, 80-200/4.5, 28-105mm 2.8 macro, AF 280T
DIGITAL - Nikon : D300 - 18-200mm f/3.5-5.6G IF-ED AF-S VR DX
DIGITAL - Nikon : D300 - 18-200mm f/3.5-5.6G IF-ED AF-S VR DX
Posted 25/06/2009 - 12:12 - Helpful Comment
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I think you need to indicate what type of photographs you want to take. A DSLR always makes its presence felt. A compact might be less forceful
Mike
Mike
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You can see some of my shots at my Flickr account.
You can see some of my shots at my Flickr account.
Posted 25/06/2009 - 12:27 - Helpful Comment
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Hi Robbie
Before spending any money sit back and ask yourself exactly what you want to do with your photography? If it is just point and shoot on holiday for example then you dont need a dslr. If you are going to advance yourself in photographic knowledge then almost certainly a dslr is a must. If you are going to do a college course then again a dslr is almost mandatory because they almost universally advocate shooting in "Raw". Also if doing a course that involved Studio work then not only is a dslr a requirement but one with a pc outlet to fire the lights is best. There are other ways to fire the strobes but a pc outlet is best.
It does not really matter how much you spend because it is such a bug that it never was enough. Good luck whatever you do because you will have a lot of fun and a great sense of achievment.
Ian
Before spending any money sit back and ask yourself exactly what you want to do with your photography? If it is just point and shoot on holiday for example then you dont need a dslr. If you are going to advance yourself in photographic knowledge then almost certainly a dslr is a must. If you are going to do a college course then again a dslr is almost mandatory because they almost universally advocate shooting in "Raw". Also if doing a course that involved Studio work then not only is a dslr a requirement but one with a pc outlet to fire the lights is best. There are other ways to fire the strobes but a pc outlet is best.
It does not really matter how much you spend because it is such a bug that it never was enough. Good luck whatever you do because you will have a lot of fun and a great sense of achievment.
Ian
Posted 25/06/2009 - 12:29
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Thanks for the replies so far, I think I'm swaying towards the K-m, just need to go and have a play with both again I think...
ericp - whilst I would love to go for a K20, I don't think my budget would stretch that far. I know I could go down the second-hand route, but as a first major camera purchase would like the safety net of warranty. For £370 with two lenses the K-m is a deal I'm finding difficult to ignore. Would I really be missing out on a lot by going for the K-m over a K20?
bodyheat - very valid point with regards 'hot buttons'. I guess I'm kind of middle of the road, in that one factor doens't really stand head and shoulders above another, that is to say ergonomics, image quality and ease of use are all on a fairly even footing. I guess this is probably reflected in the two cameras I've narrowed down to. To me they both feel good, produce images that are good enough for my needs, and are simple enough for my (limited) experience.
mikew - I hadn't really considered the 'presence' factor to be honest, you make a good point. Generally, my photography consists of landscape and architecture, with a bit of close-up wildlife/plantlife, although I'm hoping with a more capable camera I will be able to expand on this. Nothing too candid that a DSLR might get in the way of!
ericp - whilst I would love to go for a K20, I don't think my budget would stretch that far. I know I could go down the second-hand route, but as a first major camera purchase would like the safety net of warranty. For £370 with two lenses the K-m is a deal I'm finding difficult to ignore. Would I really be missing out on a lot by going for the K-m over a K20?
bodyheat - very valid point with regards 'hot buttons'. I guess I'm kind of middle of the road, in that one factor doens't really stand head and shoulders above another, that is to say ergonomics, image quality and ease of use are all on a fairly even footing. I guess this is probably reflected in the two cameras I've narrowed down to. To me they both feel good, produce images that are good enough for my needs, and are simple enough for my (limited) experience.
mikew - I hadn't really considered the 'presence' factor to be honest, you make a good point. Generally, my photography consists of landscape and architecture, with a bit of close-up wildlife/plantlife, although I'm hoping with a more capable camera I will be able to expand on this. Nothing too candid that a DSLR might get in the way of!
If you can't say something nice about Pentax, you won't say anything at all.
Apparently.
Apparently.
Posted 25/06/2009 - 12:33 - Helpful Comment
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I can reflect on my own decision making process. I was very serious about photography in my early 20s and bought very good Pentaxes and would have been classed as an enthusiast and quite knowledgable.
Then life happened and we had kids and all the cares and worries that brings and this coincided with film slowly being superseded by digital, so I got lazy and started using Sony Cybershots for family snaps as the quality was perfectly acceptable for those purposes and it was EASY and very slim and light to carry in a pocket. Besides I wasn't convinced that the digital technology was significantly much better in DSLRs 5-6 years ago than digital point and shoots - just my opinion at the time.
I finally took the plunge and decided to get back into 'proper' photography recently and joined this forum and ended up getting a K20 - which is a learning curve after film and point and shoots. Obviously in making a new start I could have gone with any system but the backward compatibility and the soft spot I have for Pentax swung it for me.
So on reflection and considering your dilemma, if you want to 'advance' and become a better photographer then you have to embrace the learning curve and in my opinion, no matter how good the Canon is I don't think it will advance YOUR KNOWLEDGE and skillset beyond what any point and shoot will do, but the KM and lenses will stretch you to grow as a DIGITAL photographer IMHO more than a Point and shoot...and if youre feeling lazy just switch it to green mode and use it like a point and shoot
Then life happened and we had kids and all the cares and worries that brings and this coincided with film slowly being superseded by digital, so I got lazy and started using Sony Cybershots for family snaps as the quality was perfectly acceptable for those purposes and it was EASY and very slim and light to carry in a pocket. Besides I wasn't convinced that the digital technology was significantly much better in DSLRs 5-6 years ago than digital point and shoots - just my opinion at the time.
I finally took the plunge and decided to get back into 'proper' photography recently and joined this forum and ended up getting a K20 - which is a learning curve after film and point and shoots. Obviously in making a new start I could have gone with any system but the backward compatibility and the soft spot I have for Pentax swung it for me.
So on reflection and considering your dilemma, if you want to 'advance' and become a better photographer then you have to embrace the learning curve and in my opinion, no matter how good the Canon is I don't think it will advance YOUR KNOWLEDGE and skillset beyond what any point and shoot will do, but the KM and lenses will stretch you to grow as a DIGITAL photographer IMHO more than a Point and shoot...and if youre feeling lazy just switch it to green mode and use it like a point and shoot
FILM - Pentax: LX, K2 - 24/2.8, 40/2.8, 50/1.4, 120/2.8, 80-200/4.5, 28-105mm 2.8 macro, AF 280T
DIGITAL - Nikon : D300 - 18-200mm f/3.5-5.6G IF-ED AF-S VR DX
DIGITAL - Nikon : D300 - 18-200mm f/3.5-5.6G IF-ED AF-S VR DX
Posted 25/06/2009 - 12:37
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hamiltonsmith wrote:
Hi Robbie
Before spending any money sit back and ask yourself exactly what you want to do with your photography? If it is just point and shoot on holiday for example then you dont need a dslr. If you are going to advance yourself in photographic knowledge then almost certainly a dslr is a must. If you are going to do a college course then again a dslr is almost mandatory because they almost universally advocate shooting in "Raw". Also if doing a course that involved Studio work then not only is a dslr a requirement but one with a pc outlet to fire the lights is best. There are other ways to fire the strobes but a pc outlet is best.
It does not really matter how much you spend because it is such a bug that it never was enough. Good luck whatever you do because you will have a lot of fun and a great sense of achievment.
Ian
Thanks for your reply.Hi Robbie
Before spending any money sit back and ask yourself exactly what you want to do with your photography? If it is just point and shoot on holiday for example then you dont need a dslr. If you are going to advance yourself in photographic knowledge then almost certainly a dslr is a must. If you are going to do a college course then again a dslr is almost mandatory because they almost universally advocate shooting in "Raw". Also if doing a course that involved Studio work then not only is a dslr a requirement but one with a pc outlet to fire the lights is best. There are other ways to fire the strobes but a pc outlet is best.
It does not really matter how much you spend because it is such a bug that it never was enough. Good luck whatever you do because you will have a lot of fun and a great sense of achievment.
Ian
I guess the answer re: my photographic intentions, falls under the "advance yourself in photographic knowledge" category, potentially (but not certainly) with the use of a college course.
I was attracted to the G10 because of its range of SLR-like functionality (i.e. shooting in RAW, ability to use a remote, etc.) that is wrapped up in a form-factor (for want of a less jargon-y phrase) which appeals to me (as I prefer to travel light, and also like the idea of a camera which could always be by my side). That said, I don't want to feel like I'm compromising on image quality or functionality, or that choosing the G10 would hinder my development (i.e. if a DSLR is essential I'll learn to live with a bigger bag!).
I'm normally pretty good at following my instinct and taking the plunge, but this time I'm a little hesitant due to not wanting to make the wrong move.
If you can't say something nice about Pentax, you won't say anything at all.
Apparently.
Apparently.
Posted 25/06/2009 - 12:41
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Robbie,
I use a K20 and love it to bits. It does everything I want except make the morning cuppa. If you buy a used K20 wisely, ie a very reputable dealer etc you will get just as good a warranty from that good dealer as you would buying a new one. Stay calm, dont rush it and barter like mad. Beware of camera's that you have not seen such as ex Honk Kong etc but you will be well served with a K20.
Ian
I use a K20 and love it to bits. It does everything I want except make the morning cuppa. If you buy a used K20 wisely, ie a very reputable dealer etc you will get just as good a warranty from that good dealer as you would buying a new one. Stay calm, dont rush it and barter like mad. Beware of camera's that you have not seen such as ex Honk Kong etc but you will be well served with a K20.
Ian
Posted 25/06/2009 - 12:48 - Helpful Comment
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Hi Robbie,
Sorry to go on a bit but there is an excellent Photograhic Society in Shropshire where you would be able to speak to not only Pentax users but other usera as well (spit).
Seriously if you did do a college course you are mixing with like minded people and using and getting to use Photoshop properly. It is well worth cosidering.
Ian
Sorry to go on a bit but there is an excellent Photograhic Society in Shropshire where you would be able to speak to not only Pentax users but other usera as well (spit).
Seriously if you did do a college course you are mixing with like minded people and using and getting to use Photoshop properly. It is well worth cosidering.
Ian
Posted 25/06/2009 - 13:03
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robbie_d wrote:
Thanks for the replies so far, I think I'm swaying towards the K-m, just need to go and have a play with both again I think...
ericp - whilst I would love to go for a K20, I don't think my budget would stretch that far. I know I could go down the second-hand route, but as a first major camera purchase would like the safety net of warranty. For £370 with two lenses the K-m is a deal I'm finding difficult to ignore. Would I really be missing out on a lot by going for the K-m over a K20?
I think if you purchase a K10/K20 second hand wisely or even a refurbished one from some like SRS you could save on the full price and still hav a guarantee. As mentioned earlier watch out for dodgy deals. I think the K-m may be too lightweight but it depends on what you want to do. It is all about you and not the camera at the end of the day but some feautures require the camera to be capabale. For example, if you want to shoot many frame contuniousley per second then the K10/K20 are better suited than the K-m so study the specs and see what you will be missing if you opt for the K-m.Thanks for the replies so far, I think I'm swaying towards the K-m, just need to go and have a play with both again I think...
ericp - whilst I would love to go for a K20, I don't think my budget would stretch that far. I know I could go down the second-hand route, but as a first major camera purchase would like the safety net of warranty. For £370 with two lenses the K-m is a deal I'm finding difficult to ignore. Would I really be missing out on a lot by going for the K-m over a K20?
Also, if you will be studying you may way to look at other options like Nikon and Canon DSLR. From experience, it is very hard to borrow Pentax lenses or other kit. Calumet and others hire Canon and Nikon for reasonable fees and if you are studying you may need different lenses for different projects and going with Pentax may restrict you there.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/_cypher/
Pentax K10D, 50, 18-55, 28-70, 100, Sigma 10-20, Tamron 18-250, 28-75
Pentax K10D, 50, 18-55, 28-70, 100, Sigma 10-20, Tamron 18-250, 28-75
Posted 25/06/2009 - 13:11
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[/quote]I... also like the idea of a camera which could always be by my side). That said, I don't want to feel like I'm compromising on image quality or functionality, or that choosing the G10 would hinder my development (i.e. if a DSLR is essential I'll learn to live with a bigger bag!).[/quote]I think the k-m is pretty small and discrete, and you will love having a proper DSLR so much that it will always be by your side, despite the slightly larger size! A compact will always feel like a bit of a compromise IMO, although they're nice to have a second camera if you have bags of money.
Posted 25/06/2009 - 13:35
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Think it depends on how much input you as a photographer wishes to add to the finished image. If you wish to develop a personal style or to try ideas then you will have to go for a DSLR however good a compact you are limited as to how much of the photographers ideas you can get into the shot, the compact camera will override all but the most basic of decisions you the photographer make.
With a DSLR you can choose to allow the camera to make the decisions if you wish but you can also tryout anything you wish how ever exocentric, however you.
As to the make, well I had no problem as I owned Pentax back in my 35mm days and I am still using the same lens. But I think the choice for you is to decide if you wish to go DSLR, if you do find a body that you can afford and then make sure those you can afford are comfortable in your hand, no matter how suitable the price if it feels like a brick you are not going to be happy with it. Don’t worry about buying second-hand if you buy from a respected outlet like SRS you will get a guarantee and full backup. Sorry just realised SRS do not do Canon but there are others who do who will offer guarantee on used goods.
With a DSLR you can choose to allow the camera to make the decisions if you wish but you can also tryout anything you wish how ever exocentric, however you.
As to the make, well I had no problem as I owned Pentax back in my 35mm days and I am still using the same lens. But I think the choice for you is to decide if you wish to go DSLR, if you do find a body that you can afford and then make sure those you can afford are comfortable in your hand, no matter how suitable the price if it feels like a brick you are not going to be happy with it. Don’t worry about buying second-hand if you buy from a respected outlet like SRS you will get a guarantee and full backup. Sorry just realised SRS do not do Canon but there are others who do who will offer guarantee on used goods.
Jackie H
K7, K20D, istDS, Optio SV, ME
Most used glass
50mm f1.4, 60-250mm, 28-80mm,
Sigma 105mm 2.8 Macro & Bertha 50-500
K7, K20D, istDS, Optio SV, ME
Most used glass
50mm f1.4, 60-250mm, 28-80mm,
Sigma 105mm 2.8 Macro & Bertha 50-500
Posted 25/06/2009 - 15:17
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Thordell wrote:
Think it depends on how much input you as a photographer wishes to add to the finished image. If you wish to develop a personal style or to try ideas then you will have to go for a DSLR however good a compact you are limited as to how much of the photographers ideas you can get into the shot, the compact camera will override all but the most basic of decisions you the photographer make.
With a DSLR you can choose to allow the camera to make the decisions if you wish but you can also tryout anything you wish how ever exocentric, however you.
As to the make, well I had no problem as I owned Pentax back in my 35mm days and I am still using the same lens. But I think the choice for you is to decide if you wish to go DSLR, if you do find a body that you can afford and then make sure those you can afford are comfortable in your hand, no matter how suitable the price if it feels like a brick you are not going to be happy with it. Don’t worry about buying second-hand if you buy from a respected outlet like SRS you will get a guarantee and full backup. Sorry just realised SRS do not do Canon but there are others who do who will offer guarantee on used goods.
Is this the case with a camera such as the G10, which I understand, has a full manual mode?
Think it depends on how much input you as a photographer wishes to add to the finished image. If you wish to develop a personal style or to try ideas then you will have to go for a DSLR however good a compact you are limited as to how much of the photographers ideas you can get into the shot, the compact camera will override all but the most basic of decisions you the photographer make.
With a DSLR you can choose to allow the camera to make the decisions if you wish but you can also tryout anything you wish how ever exocentric, however you.
As to the make, well I had no problem as I owned Pentax back in my 35mm days and I am still using the same lens. But I think the choice for you is to decide if you wish to go DSLR, if you do find a body that you can afford and then make sure those you can afford are comfortable in your hand, no matter how suitable the price if it feels like a brick you are not going to be happy with it. Don’t worry about buying second-hand if you buy from a respected outlet like SRS you will get a guarantee and full backup. Sorry just realised SRS do not do Canon but there are others who do who will offer guarantee on used goods.
If you can't say something nice about Pentax, you won't say anything at all.
Apparently.
Apparently.
Posted 25/06/2009 - 15:48 - Helpful Comment
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I used to have a 'Prosumer' compact camera, and while it was brilliant and offered full manual control (like the G10), the small zoom lens rules out experimenting with things like minimal (or enormous) DOF. And you are forever constrained by its minimum focusing distance and focal length.
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1569 posts
17 years
Victory Mansions
I'm new to the forum, my name is Rob and I live in Shropshire.
I've had an interest in photography for a while now, but due to time/cash restraints I have got by with a fairly basic point an shoot Kodak.
I've now got to the point where I feel this is restricting what I want to do photography-wise, so want to take the plunge and invest in my first 'serious' (for want of a better word) camera.
This is where I've hit a bit of a stumbling block. Having researched on the net, gone to shops, asked opinions of family and friends I've narrowed down the field somewhat, but I'm still unsure whether to go for a DLSR or something slightly different.
I've basically narrowed things down to the Pentax K-m and a Canon Powershot G10, both are available for around the same price (K-m with 2 lenses for around £370, a similar price for the G10), and both would be a major upgrade over my current unit. Now I know there is likely to be a slight bias (!) on this forum, but I was wondering if anyone could give me any advice regarding the two.
I like the idea of the range of control a DSLR would give me, but am concerned that the size of the body and lenses (and particularly a bag to carry them) would actually put me off using it as much as a well-specced compact like the G10, which is far more portable. The G10 however, will surely not offer the lower-light performance or flexibility of a DSLR (reviews seem to back this up, although I'm not sure how much of this is a real concern and how much is nit-picking), and I do worry that I would always be thinking "I should have gone for a DSLR" and end up buying one very soon after.
I've used both in shops, which allowed me to get something of a feel for them. To be honest the Canon feeled the more robust and 'special' but then it is a top-end compact and the K-m a budget DSLR (although a very well put together one).
Any help, advice, pointers would be much appreciated.
Apparently.