What has happened?

which will arrive first ....FF or General Chat... mmmmm

Well I wouldn't hold your breath if it's anything like the "go to last read post" button I asked for years ago which was being looked into.

I would treat these figures with a pinch of salt.

For a start, the yearly figures are all exactly 365 times the daily figures and the monthly figures also have a constant ratio to the daily figures. So there is only one independent data point for each site.

Secondly, the figures for relatively low-traffic sites are typically estimated based on some ranking (which itself is also often estimated). The false precision can give a false sense of confidence in the numbers.

It would be interesting to compare the estimated values with actual hits (you or Smeggy may be able to provide data).

EM

Its not just a numbers game though, there are other things to weigh up. I've been registered on the 'big' US forum for as long as I have here, and have joined in a fair number of discussions 'over there' - but there a downside is a community that is so large. I have not been able to develop any sense of belonging there, no feel for the characters and personalities, simply because there's too many of them.

The opposite applies here where there's quite a good number of regular posters so you get a 'feel' for them, not too few & not too many - yes we could do with a few more of course.

On a more practical aspect, this site does seem to have fewer technical features, less categories and sub-divisions - but I have found that it is easier to negotiate for that and I can easily jump in to the most recent activity or find earlier things through my portfolio page. Also I think the physical presentation of the forum pages here is much better ... it is much easier to see posts divided up with avatars clearly, and the quotes are nicely boxed and differentiated to the replies - on other forums it is a confusing jumble of text, some bigger some smaller, dividing lines and massive spaces of nothing before you see an avatar - you spend more time scrolling through large threads than reading anything!

And just because there are loads more members and so many more threads doesn't actually add up to more useful activity necessarily - there are loads of threads which fizzle out with just 1 or 2 replies, I can only assume because people just don't get to them.

I'm just saying this because all this practical side to it adds up to a better experience overall - you have to be able to jump in easily and pick up quickly where you left off - in and out through the day - for it to work well, and that's a strength of PU I have found, and a big reason for sticking with it. The main thing is the community and people of course, but they have to be easily accessable to make it enjoyable and practical.

At the other extreme there are the very small forums - there's one that's been opening its arms recently - where is it, somewhere in Europe .... not to deride the good input of our own cross-party members there, but having taken a look, ..., well, not much going on in Europe

I wouldn't, I'd treat them as a rough guide ....

... don't seem far out on a purely "from experience" basis comparing the two.


Two things to consider when comparing. pentaxuser.co.uk isn't just a forum. it's a site with much more dynamic content, while smeggys.co.uk is primarily a forum.

Also the pentaxuser forum designed to support a brand of camera, while Smeggy's is like a local pub

I've observed over the last 5 years that more often than not the usage of the forum on Smeggys is much than on here. Currently it's about the same.

What's notable though is the traffic on what should be the UK Pentax forum should be a lot higher than on a "local pub" forum like Smeggy's. Also worth noting that smeggy's doesn't have the draw of the specific brand, I'd have no members left if I employed the same style of moderation is employed here. Smeggy's is no competition of a Pentax forum of course so anyone is welcome to come over and talk abuot anything and everything in a relaxed and free environment. the onyl time I delete threads/posts is when the occasional spammer gets through,and I'd never delete a thread without an explanation why.

Indeed. two of the main reasons forums fail to work well is

1] they are too obsessed with getting new members while failing to look after existing members [ for example making the place overly magnolia in order to put off and offend any prospective members,which is a good example of a perverse incentive ]. and

2] failing to recognise the members are a community and not setting the forum up to properly accommodate a community.

this forum fails on number 2] becuase it fails to provide a general lounge area and is obsessed about not allowing talk of other brands.

The addition of a "General Lounge" and a "Other Brands" sub-forum would hugely improve the community here.

Reckon you're right about projected monthly/annual figures. These are likely to include search engines but my site's history file now excludes those so I do not have a comparative figure. Before excluding them the number of hits each day was colossal but not particularly useful information. I also have pages for which no history is kept but a traffic recorder would include. I'm often amazed that on some Google searches some of my pages come out at the top of the list so they must be directing some traffic this way. Certainly folk have contacted me for copies of photos of historic views/items that aren't available elsewhere. I'm truly amazed anyone finds these photos given that they are on a hard drive in the spare bedroom! (Not bedroom-tax and not even all Pen-tax!)

I can confirm that these stats are off by quite a bit for Pentax User.

Unless you have direct access to a sites dedicated analytics system, there is no way you can provide accurate statistics. They all have a certain level of estimations and assumptions as they don't have direct access to the site's traffic logs. You might as well make up your own figures, this includes Alexa as that is hugely based on client software.

My conclusion comes from looking after a large number of sites over the years and monitoring the traffic levels for all of them (of all sizes). Generally, you find that sites with larger traffic amounts, these online statistic reports have a higher level of failure. In other words, the more traffic a site has, the more these sites miss.

But then the stats will be off by even more for the US pentaxforums which has a much higher traffic figure.

I'm afraid anyone who frequents the forum as a contributor on a daily basis, as I and many others are doing, can see the traffic here isn't good compared to what it should be given it's supposed to be the main UK Pentax forum. I've been on here pretty much daily since 2009 and I don't even know who you are.


As for your announcement here


https://www.pentaxuser.com/forum/topic/non-photographic-discussion--forum-suggestion-49877

which provides the following reason for not allowing a Community Lounge sub-forum ...

... are you seriously claiming that providing an off topic lounge for the community will dilute the Pentax identity of this Pentax user forum?

I'm also a bit confused as if you feel providing such an off topic forum would dilute the Pentax identity of this forum then by saying "Although we don't rule out the possibility in the future..." you are basically saying you are not ruling out the possibility of diluting the identity of the Pentax future.

Communities have community areas, i.e a lounge. The allowance of an off topic lounge is contradictory to providing a community

That's good to know and my feedback is above. However it's clear that the consensus is that a community off topic lounge sub-forum is wanted by consensus of the members here to solidify the alleged community.

It's such a shame that this forum isn't designed or run with a community in mind and it needs someone who knows what a community is to manage the place so it may become the forum it has the potential to be



post backed up in advance because I've had "dissenting posts" deleted many times before

What has happened?

Nothing!

Disappointing but not surprising response from PU, regarding the ordinary users wishes for a lounge off topic area.

A lot of users recently have tried to liven the forum up, and a lounge has been proposed by the forum users as a sensible idea of fostering a community feel to the forum.

It wouldn't take too much effort to set a small lounge area up for a month or two, monitor how its goes and if its not being abused then leave it as a permanent fixture.

I like the potential PU has and would like it to evolve and flourish, but suspect that this decision will put a lot of users backs up.


Lenny

As oft I find myself agreeing with Leslie Phillips above and also with Lenny's post.

Maybe in the future ? why ? what is going to be different in 6 months time, in 12 months time, in 18 months time ? so what is really being said is "you aint getting it"

This also doesn't make sense given we have the "pointless" thread - if one thread is OK , then why not a forum ? It wont dilute identity to have a general chat section - it's Bizarre in the extreme to suggest this.

The activity in this and similar threads should demonstrate the strength of feeling of some participants on the forum, several of whom have been around for some time - inc Mr. Phillips above.

Just as an indication on how responsive some forums are - I made a suggestion on another forum a few days ago - within 20 minutes a mod said he'd pass on to the admin who, in less than 24 hours, asked for clarification of what I was suggesting, said he's think about how it could be implemented and within 48 hours two new sections had been created.

Now that makes members feel appreciated and glad to be there.

Hope we see a reconsideration of PU's stance.

It wasn't an easy decision, but we concluded that we would like Pentax User to continue to be focus on Pentax and photography, not off topic, non-photographic discussion.

We have ideas on ways that we may be able to introduce avenues on the site to allow more casual discussion, but at the moment, it's not something that we will be looking at doing immediately.

My personal opinion: There are so many other sites these days that have these 'off topic' areas and have essentially descended into endless mindless off-topic dribble. They all are essentially micro-facebooks where no site is a niche anymore, it's just 'off topic discussion'. You may not agree, but I personally don't want Pentax User to become yet another site that becomes victim to this. Pentax User is about Pentax and photography. Always has been, and should continue to be.

As said in the announcement, it may change in the future, but for now, lets try to keep it Pentax and photography related please. I don't think thats alot to ask for a site called Pentax User.

Totally agree with David.

David, first off nice to meet you as I have never come across you on here before, and thank you for your honest but not very clear answers.

Myself from a marketing and advertising background I would like to point out on one of you statements that You, not its members would like PU to remain a niche, well I am sorry a niche of anything does not survive in the modern world anymore, As you are aware thanks to the World Wide Web a niche product doesn't stay that way for long.

As you also stated a number of sites you gave visited have these general chat lounges, I to have visited these sites and have never witnessed such behaviour as you have quoted, this I put down to the more nature and like minded individuals that visit a site, put it this way a One Direction fan will not be visiting a site with Pentax in the title and then sharing their views in the lounge.

The currently running Pointless thread is what you could call a micro-facebook which us full of mindless off topic dribble, but this us ok?Your words, but this is ok, why is it ok? Do I take it from what you stated above that the pointless thread us to be deleted, because it can no longer be left to run if what you have stated is true.

I am sorry for these questions but I have now been left even more confused then before, it would of been easier to have stated that,

I am sorry you are not having a lounge as it's upto us what happens on here, even though we are aware most if not all of our members would like one and there are plenty if not most other forums offer what you are looking for.

I love this site and the last thing I want to happen to it, is it for to disappear like many other niche products.