What has happened?

I think it's very difficult to have this sort of conversation on a forum, because the slightest comment get blown up out of all proportion and sometimes the many things that have been taken on board just get completely overlooked.

This is a very different structure than when it started and much of it has been in response to suggestions. Some of it has come out of the blue as well.

My comment was all about the fact that what is already there is severely under-used, so making it more complicated is perhaps not the best way forward. This thread in itself has strayed a long way from where it started and the messages in it are sometimes contradictory, with some good ideas thrown in as well.

It is user led in the sense that the people who post put their images where they want to, the people who comment do so how they want to. If the mood is that some want something different, then show by example that there's alternative ways. Ken is right that there are huge numbers of posts now that are clearly in the wrong place. Some haven't found the Your Photos or even Classified Ads sections because they haven't scrolled the page.....my point is that if we make it more complicated it won't necessarily make it any better.

This is not a rejection of any point of view, just a thinking process about it.

It would be healthy to engage with these suggestions. The changes do not seem inherently difficult to implement nor do they carry any real potential for confusion.

Do two things:

* rename 'Your photos' as 'Images for critique or feedback'

* remove the opportunity to leave comments in the Gallery.

Two very simple changes, with no possibility for confusion at all.

You wouldn't expect to go up to the Mona Lisa in the Louvre, and find a comments book containing things like 'nice pic, maybe touch up the smile a bit'. That's because it's a gallery. Everyone knows what a gallery is.

None of this stuff is rocket science, and it's an insult to the people here to imagine that such simple changes are beyond people's ability to understand.

It's more confusing as things are at the moment.

PS Ideally, I'd like to be able to put links to externally hosted images in the gallery on the rare occasions I have something to show off. I don't like having to host things in more than one place, and I also don't like the fact (assuming it's still the case) that deleting an image from the gallery doesn't delete it from the server.

I think that sounds good.

But in comparing the Gallery and the Louvre, You can not put up any old picture in the Louvre. Someone has to decide the image is worth it's salt

I don't visit the gallery much, but would like the opprtunity to comment on something in there if I wanted too.

Think we just need another your photos section

Photos for critique

and

Photos for pleasure - where nice words only would be allowed

Not sure how changing a forum name would help anything, people can post images now and ask for C&C and still get totally ignored, a name change will do nothing to change that.

Stopping comments in the gallery will only alianate a large portion of the very few active PU members and possibly cause them to move on else where.

You seem to be trying to fix a problem that's not there, ie trying to create a place for critique a place for demonstrating new toys a place for showing of your best stuff. People can do all this now. Will having a dedicated critique forum mean all the highly regarded ( and as such the only peeps some will take notice of regarding critique anyway) come on here on a daily basis and critique everything put up? I don't think so, there is sod all stopping absolutely anyone one offering critique on any image posted, but sadly many posted images get ignored. Name changes will do sod all to change that.

Jim.

Jim, what would make you more active on the forum?

Time.
Confidence, ability, experience to give critique that doesn't fall into the "oh nice" category.
Did I mention time.

My post above put simply, how is a name change going to encourage folk to give critique?

Jim.

We've all been there Jim - including the reason of "time". Just got to jump in. It gets easier.

I don't think the name change suggested by Chris would drive positive change. I think it would inhibit the less confident from posting in Your Photos.

I think sub sections of Photos for Critique and Photos for Pleasure would give the less confident somewhere to start.

I don't suggest that we should stop comments in the gallery, IMHO that would be a backward step.

At the moment we have one board for posting images 'your photos' there is a complete mix of images in there for various reasons and there are, obviously, a few people who feel that the current arrangement is not 'optimal' to assist photographer development.

I feel that creating a specific 'critique' board will not only help the person posting the image but will also help and encourage other to offer opinions. By giving some guidance on what to look for in an image you can help the viewer and the poster.

Some people are syaing that they don't have the confidence or ability to offer critique. From my point of view, as someone posting an image, I would want to hear everyones opinion. Some people would prefer to give a technical opinion on the way an image has been processed but I would be happy to hear from people who say things like "I'm not sure what it is but the image looks too dark to me" or "I would prefer it if there was less space around the subject".
It's an image that was made for people to enjoy, if people don't I'd like to know why.
I can look at a picasso or rembradt and say why I do or don't like it without knowing anything about canvas, paint or the painter.

Anyway I think its all a moot point because the decision has been made and it will never happen

Some changes and clarity would help for sure - but hey, don't you think that David's thread here has had an effect? I notice quite a bit more 'sizzle' on the forum - lots of pictures to discuss and interesting subjects. There's plenty to get stuck in to ... the new HDR thread is a case in point. We just have to see if Andrews church interior can break my record of views and replies from the 'Riddlesdown' HDR debate .

But its a pity there are so many more viewers than commentators in matters like this. The issue of exposure, scene dynamic range, identifying key tones for reflected light metering, and ultimately making creative choices about your images presentation and best processing approach, are matters for all of us - something everyone can have an opinion on and experience to share ... or questions to ask.

I've never used the Gallery, either for my own pics or to look at others. It does seem a bit odd to have commetns in a gallery though.

I can't see the point of renaming the Your Photos sub-forum.



however one sub-forum is clumsy IMO, and that's the Troubleshooting sub-forum. It splits up topics about each section of equipment. Anything about DSLRs should go in the DSLR Forum, the same with lenses, flashes, etc,etc

I'm really not sure that is a suggestion that many of us would agree with. Those of us that use the Gallery (as you probably know that I do) like to leave comments. From time to time I do put constructive criticism on there, probably more so than most members but I'm always careful to try and ensure it is not too harsh, but it has to be meaningful.

The fact that comment is allowed should mean we are free to give our opinions, but most of us choose to do so in a more gentle way than we might on Forum posts and there's nothing wrong with this. The Gallery is valuable for many of us and especially so when we are just starting out.

I'm not surprised to see a lot of opinion on the Gallery by people who never or rarely view it, maybe this is because they don't like it, but if changes were made based on the opinions of those who don't use it then I doubt very much whether those changes would be well received. I started this thread off with some mild criticism of the quality of images on the Gallery of late, but whatever the quality it is good that we are free to post whatever we want (within reason) and to pass comment on it in a respectful manner.

Regards
David

My contribution to this excellent discussion as follows...

I'm a big fan of the Gallery... I use it a lot, both for viewing the work of others, and for posting my own stuff...

I particularly like the way it works... I find I tend to comment on and contribute to the work which specifically catches my eye... ie it's all about the photograph, and especially the impact it has (on me)... I like the fact that equipment, and photographer, is secondary... In the first instance, it's all about the photograph...

I actually like the way the comments work... They give you an opportunity to say what particularly struck you about an image, usually at an emotional level... Which sometimes might just be "nice" (but I'll take that - someone's engaged with your work and enjoyed it, and that's good for both parties), other times might be more involved...

It's particularly useful to find out HOW people engage with your work... Sometimes they see something you never intended, but which is very useful for you to know (either positive or negative)... Sometimes they see nothing at all (for me, no comments are often as useful in giving you a steer on the impact of any given photograph)...

If I specifically wanted technical critique on something I wasn't quite sure about (new technique i'm trying out, specific questions on composition etc), I would definitely post to "Your Photos"... But most of the time that's not really the kind of feedback I'm after, so I tend not to post there...

I also like the fact that after a while, you start to recognise the specific photographic signature of some contributors... Even viewed blind, you can recognise their work... Part of what interests me about the gallery (and photography) is trying to work out what belongs to whom, and why... What is it about a photographer's work which makes it specifically recognisable as theirs (subject matter, soulfulness, feel, processing etc)...

So long live the Gallery... It might have its flaws, but for me it's a key and integral part of the site...

Best

what he said ^^^