Tim?

I'm afraid I can't agree with that. You are saying that anything is okay if sent by PM?

So if a member Pms you continually abusing you and even threatening you that is okay because it is via PM.

I think not.

Of course we dont know what was in the PMs in this particular case but the point still remains- good conduct should be e requirement of the forum whether the communication is public or otherwise.

I neither know, nor wish to know, the history that has led Gareth to announce his departure from the forum. I can't help but feel, however, that this, comparatively small, community of photographers can ill afford to lose such a long-standing, enthusiastic and good-natured contributor

Jon

Ah that would be a shame Gareth. No Tim, and now no Gareth?

Had you been here a bit longer, you would know that Gareth has previously had run-ins with the moderators. Surely you can tell from reading his post.

His decision to go is therefore no great surprise.

Frankly, when people harbour grudges it is best for them to seek new pastures. Otherwise, we get the sort of nonsense that has been evident in some posts in this thread.

People come, and people go. This forum has its ups and downs, and one or two people more or less will make very little difference. Gareth was generally a positive force, but not invariably.

G

I am no heavyweight and so no great loss, but I am with Gareth here.

I have been around too long to have patience with those who wields absolute authority.

John, unless you soften your approach, take time, take council before taking action you will allienate many more.

I shall continue to take what is good from this forum.

To those who have been considerate of my stumbling postings, I say a heartfull thanks.

I'm not harbouring any grudges and will keep fond memories of PUF. I felt at home here from 2003 have met many interesting people. Unfortunately quite a few have left or are inactive (or have been banned) and that hasn't made the forum any better.

I'm out of here for now. I will have a look from time to time if things have changed but I don't hold my breath.

Prieni

Well I'm going to say it again, was hoping i could hold out for a bit longer but since many others are going as well...

Very few people have been permanently banned, Ralf, and I can't think of any who didn't deserve it.

I post here much less than I did, and it's largely because this forum has in the past two or three years attracted a number of people who I wish had stayed away.

I should be sorry to see you go, but it's your choice. JR has a very difficult job to do, and deserves out support, whether or not we always agree with his decisions.

I suspect he has been leaned on by the owners of the site to get tough. Certainly at one time he adopted a more laissez-faire approach than recently.

We all get annoyed when we get a parking ticket, but we shrug our shoulders, pay, and get on with life. If a few more people adopted the same approach here, we wouldn't have these silly and totally avoidable problems.

An exasperated G

Is that supposed to imply Gareth is some sort of 'bad apple', or does it actually indicate something's gone awry with the status quo on here and this was the last straw. Add Ralf to the equation and this episode has caused the forum to shed three gold-standard members.

What can reverse this trend? An apology for zapping Tim's thread, and an undertaking to hold back from that sort of thing in future would be a good start as a bridge-building exercise.

JR is a great asset to the forum with his knowledge and willingness to offer advice, it's only the gung-ho zapping of posts and threads which have caused these issues.

This "episode" has not caused anybody to leave.

Gareth has been simmering away for years, and has finally done what he should have done long ago. Ralf is just being silly, and Stefan is being very silly (no surprise there). The choice is theirs entirely: nobody pushed them.

As I said earlier, JR used to be much more easy-going, but has got tougher in recent years. My suspicion is that he has been encouraged to take a harder line by the owners of the site. I have had two posts interfered with in the past three or four months, but I don't think it is something to make an issue of. People see things differently, we just have to accept that and move on.

What is at issue here is maturity.

The only apology owed is by Tim to JR. Tim wasn't banned out of the blue; and certainly not because of his original post. He took steps to escalate the situation, and that led to the ban.

I suspect that, as with Gareth, Tim was harbouring some resentment that led him to behave as he did.

G

I note that despite saying they were going, both Ralf and Stefan are still lurking here.

G

Good old George,

seems that all is well for you. People leaving either were harbouring resentment or are plain silly. No more words needed, that speaks for itself.

Goodbye George

The resentment was caused by the moderation issues, as far as I know. Gareth has had threads deleted in the past himself.

If it's the case that the heavy handedness is being instructed from the top, I feel sorry for John for being put in that situation (although AFAIK it is a voluntary role so there's no reason he has to put up with it!) and hope that the message is heard by those in charge.

I agree Tim's ultimate ban was brought on by his own actions, but sympathise with his anger at having his initial thread deleted without warning or adequate justification.

Well, if you are mentioning my name, George, then I still answer. I know you don't like silly people talking to you, but you have to put up with that as long as you go on writing such a nonsense.

If you read my post careful you will find that I said I would be leaving for some time and check back from time to time if things change.

Of course this thread is still of interest to me and I will continue to follow it. That is all of my activity for now.

The problem is that there is no hard and fast rule that dictates whether a post should be deleted or not. It's subjective.

Some people accept it and move on; others make an issue of it.

I don't think JR should have deleted/edited my posts, but presumably some nitwit complained and he felt it best to wield the blue pencil. It's JR's decision; I respect him for the vast amount of time he puts into making this site run smoothly, and I am not going to get into nit-picking arguments.

G