Really why does Pentax not have an EVIL camera?
Posted 25/08/2011 - 08:48
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Posted 25/08/2011 - 08:57
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The term being more generally accepted seems to be CSC - Compact System Cameras - as most do not have an inbuilt EVF.
The problem I see as several-fold:
1. The lenses make the camera as un-pocketable as a DSLR, so there's no advantage in terms of carrying. We still need a camera bag.
2. The small bodies are fiddly to operate and sometimes have controls that are too easy to nudge accidentally.
3. Very small/light cameras are more difficult to hand hold effectively.
4. We can get better quality, more easily, at a lower cost from a DSLR such as the K-r.
The problem I see as several-fold:
1. The lenses make the camera as un-pocketable as a DSLR, so there's no advantage in terms of carrying. We still need a camera bag.
2. The small bodies are fiddly to operate and sometimes have controls that are too easy to nudge accidentally.
3. Very small/light cameras are more difficult to hand hold effectively.
4. We can get better quality, more easily, at a lower cost from a DSLR such as the K-r.
Best regards, John
Posted 25/08/2011 - 09:18
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johnriley wrote:
The term being more generally accepted seems to be CSC - Compact System Cameras - as most do not have an inbuilt EVF.
The problem I see as several-fold:
1. The lenses make the camera as un-pocketable as a DSLR, so there's no advantage in terms of carrying. We still need a camera bag.
2. The small bodies are fiddly to operate and sometimes have controls that are too easy to nudge accidentally.
3. Very small/light cameras are more difficult to hand hold effectively.
4. We can get better quality, more easily, at a lower cost from a DSLR such as the K-r.
Most of these arguments could be levelled at the Q, certainly no. 4 - and some of the CSC's e.g. from Sony, actually rival or exceed the Kr in terms of quality, and cost less .
The term being more generally accepted seems to be CSC - Compact System Cameras - as most do not have an inbuilt EVF.
The problem I see as several-fold:
1. The lenses make the camera as un-pocketable as a DSLR, so there's no advantage in terms of carrying. We still need a camera bag.
2. The small bodies are fiddly to operate and sometimes have controls that are too easy to nudge accidentally.
3. Very small/light cameras are more difficult to hand hold effectively.
4. We can get better quality, more easily, at a lower cost from a DSLR such as the K-r.
Posted 25/08/2011 - 09:30
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The Q is actually much smaller and with its standard lens should be pocketable. I do carry a pocketable camera at all times.
However, pocketable cameras need a lot of care in use to get the best from them.
So although you're quite right Pentaxophile, I think there's still a case for a compact camera. At the moment I use the I-10 or the W90, but I can see the Q will likely up the quality level.
However, pocketable cameras need a lot of care in use to get the best from them.
So although you're quite right Pentaxophile, I think there's still a case for a compact camera. At the moment I use the I-10 or the W90, but I can see the Q will likely up the quality level.
Best regards, John
Posted 25/08/2011 - 09:41
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I like the form factor of a DSLR.. There are definite advantages when shooting. But something pocketable like an NEX + 16mm pancake does appeal for street shooting, especially making use of the vari-angle screen and with the option of using an adapter to be able to use my MF lenses on it too. I look forward to whatever Pentax offer us in this class.
Posted 25/08/2011 - 09:51
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I agree that even a modest zoom lens on these so called compact systems are anything but. I've played with the Sony models in Currys. Daft as hell with anything other tan the 16mm lens on and as dear as a KR!
I'm fascinated by the prospect of the Q because its scale does mean smaller lenses. The big question is have Pentax really found a tiny sensor that can fnally avoid blown highlights and noise above 400 ISO unlike most compacts with this size sensor.
The Q seems to be the same size as my wife's (cheap) Optio RZ10 but with a lens sticking out (that camera is useless above base ISO by the way). That seems coat pocketable at least!
I'm fascinated by the prospect of the Q because its scale does mean smaller lenses. The big question is have Pentax really found a tiny sensor that can fnally avoid blown highlights and noise above 400 ISO unlike most compacts with this size sensor.
The Q seems to be the same size as my wife's (cheap) Optio RZ10 but with a lens sticking out (that camera is useless above base ISO by the way). That seems coat pocketable at least!
Posted 25/08/2011 - 10:05
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The NEX5 is an older camera surely if price is the issue.That is also with a fixed lens rather than the 18 - 55 kit lens so not a straight comparison.
Price up any such camera though with wide angle through telephoto lenses and you'll have a dear old kit compared to a KR one and the same size camera bag to carry around I bet!
Price up any such camera though with wide angle through telephoto lenses and you'll have a dear old kit compared to a KR one and the same size camera bag to carry around I bet!
Posted 25/08/2011 - 10:13
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But that is what I am saying really. Pentax already HAS a lineup of very small very practical excellent quality lenses for decent prices that would suit the size of a smaller format camera whatever you want to call it.
I don't think the Q is the answer to the above question firstly because it needs a brand new set of lenses and second because the size of the sensor means it cannot and will not be competing with those types of cameras. This in no way is a criticism to the Q, it is just saying the Q is not here to compete with the CSC it is here as a stand alone product.
What I am trying to convey is that Pentax already has the advantage over Nikon/Sony/Canon in the fact that they already make feature packed smallish DSLRs and have a great lineup of small lenses. They could use that advantage to push a smaller form of camera.
How very practical, convenient and logical would it be to buy a small K mount camera, get a few lenses for it and when you want something like a DSLR you will buy Pentax cause already have some great lenses for it. To be seems like a no brainer...
I don't think the Q is the answer to the above question firstly because it needs a brand new set of lenses and second because the size of the sensor means it cannot and will not be competing with those types of cameras. This in no way is a criticism to the Q, it is just saying the Q is not here to compete with the CSC it is here as a stand alone product.
What I am trying to convey is that Pentax already has the advantage over Nikon/Sony/Canon in the fact that they already make feature packed smallish DSLRs and have a great lineup of small lenses. They could use that advantage to push a smaller form of camera.
How very practical, convenient and logical would it be to buy a small K mount camera, get a few lenses for it and when you want something like a DSLR you will buy Pentax cause already have some great lenses for it. To be seems like a no brainer...
Posted 25/08/2011 - 10:21
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That's agreed then. My son will have the Q becase he likes gadgets.
I'll have the promised APSC version (unless Ricoh have shelved it)as I like photography.
Am I right in understanding that the modular Ricoh GXR could be getting a K mount module much as its getting a Leica one? By next year that would be rebranded as Pentax anyway I guess.
By the way is it me or are the new owners being very very quiet?
I'll have the promised APSC version (unless Ricoh have shelved it)as I like photography.
Am I right in understanding that the modular Ricoh GXR could be getting a K mount module much as its getting a Leica one? By next year that would be rebranded as Pentax anyway I guess.
By the way is it me or are the new owners being very very quiet?
Posted 25/08/2011 - 10:32
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Quote:
By the way is it me or are the new owners being very very quiet?
I'm not sure what the changeover date was now. Can anyone remember? I don't think they would say anything at all before it's signed, sealed and a done deal.By the way is it me or are the new owners being very very quiet?
After that, what happens should be interesting.
Best regards, John
Posted 25/08/2011 - 11:24
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johnriley wrote:
After that, what happens should be interesting.
1st October ... but I read somewhere recently that fingers will be in pies before the handover.
Quote:
By the way is it me or are the new owners being very very quiet?
I'm not sure what the changeover date was now. Can anyone remember? I don't think they would say anything at all before it's signed, sealed and a done deal.By the way is it me or are the new owners being very very quiet?
After that, what happens should be interesting.
http://frogfish.smugmug.com/ Pentax. Pentax DA*300/4, Cosina 55/1.2, Lens Baby Composer Pro & Edge 80, AFA x1.7, Metz 50 af1.
Nikon. D800. D600. Sigma 500/4.5, Nikon 300/2.8 VRII, Sigma 120-300/2.8, Zeiss Distagon ZF2 21/2.8, Zeiss Distagon ZF2 35/2.0, Sigma 50/1.4, Nikkor 85/1.8, Nikon TC20EIII, Nikon TC14EII, Kenko x1.4, Sigma 2.0
Nikon. D800. D600. Sigma 500/4.5, Nikon 300/2.8 VRII, Sigma 120-300/2.8, Zeiss Distagon ZF2 21/2.8, Zeiss Distagon ZF2 35/2.0, Sigma 50/1.4, Nikkor 85/1.8, Nikon TC20EIII, Nikon TC14EII, Kenko x1.4, Sigma 2.0
Posted 25/08/2011 - 16:51
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Pentax / Ricoh have a long way to go IMHO. I really hope they have something on the drawing board or in testing.
As far as the camera / lens / pocketability issue goes, a lens or two in different pockets and the tiny FLAT camera in another - job done. Though I do agree they may be fiddly (the 3 wheels on the Nex7) that's not such an issue on the new Nex 5N (touch screen) though it may take some getting used to.
re. Nex 7 & Nex 5N
More MPs doesn't translate to cleaner pics on that sensor (I'd assume, as the space between individual photosites is compromised ? Maybe not on an APS-C sized sensor). Just maybe better for cropping or massive posters. It is really the ability to use all that fantastic glass ( and the Peaking function - which I tried out and think it's a big step forward for MF lenses on EVIL cameras) that interests me with this NEX series. Imagine not being constricted by lens mount any more and able to choice any prime from any manufacturer !
Looking at the specs of the 5N vs Nex 7 I am not seeing a huge advantage to the 7 (although it undoubtedly 'looks' nicer) for the vast majority of my shooting. Hopefully there will soon be 3rd party suppliers for a VF.
So having had a further look at the press release the NEX 5N is the one I may go for. Same sensor as in the K5 (tweaked in a different direction - ISO to 25,600) and only ca. $600 (£365) with the 18-55 or ca. $500 (£300) body only. Half the price of the NEX 7 but perfect for mounting all my PK & MF lenses with Peaking. And we can expect those prices to drop another 10-20% quite quickly.
Great video too (60fps). Unlike the NEX 7 the 5N has a touch-screen, though I won't be buying the viewfinder for just another $350 (500 for the camera and 350 for VF - what the hell are they thinking) !! I'll skip the Zeiss 24/1.8 at US$1,000 too - you can get the best 21mm ever made (Contax Zeiss Distagon 21/2.8 ) used for not much more ! Sony have said they will bring out another 10 lenses within the next year.
Whilst I see it as a back up and just to be able to slip into my pocket on occasions when I don't want to cart along a DSLR and backpack along (it goes everywhere with me now, work, play, eating out) others will see it as their primary camera. TBH I found that (after testing the Nex C3 in the shop), with MF lenses, the CIF on the K5 works much faster and maybe a little more accurately than Peaking on the C3. However that may change with more practice.
DPreview overview here:- Sony NEX-7 high-end APS-C mirrorless camera first look: Digital Photography Review
NEX-5n samples: http://www.photographyblog.com/previ..._nex_5n_photos
(pre-production body/firmware)
As far as the camera / lens / pocketability issue goes, a lens or two in different pockets and the tiny FLAT camera in another - job done. Though I do agree they may be fiddly (the 3 wheels on the Nex7) that's not such an issue on the new Nex 5N (touch screen) though it may take some getting used to.
re. Nex 7 & Nex 5N
More MPs doesn't translate to cleaner pics on that sensor (I'd assume, as the space between individual photosites is compromised ? Maybe not on an APS-C sized sensor). Just maybe better for cropping or massive posters. It is really the ability to use all that fantastic glass ( and the Peaking function - which I tried out and think it's a big step forward for MF lenses on EVIL cameras) that interests me with this NEX series. Imagine not being constricted by lens mount any more and able to choice any prime from any manufacturer !
Looking at the specs of the 5N vs Nex 7 I am not seeing a huge advantage to the 7 (although it undoubtedly 'looks' nicer) for the vast majority of my shooting. Hopefully there will soon be 3rd party suppliers for a VF.
So having had a further look at the press release the NEX 5N is the one I may go for. Same sensor as in the K5 (tweaked in a different direction - ISO to 25,600) and only ca. $600 (£365) with the 18-55 or ca. $500 (£300) body only. Half the price of the NEX 7 but perfect for mounting all my PK & MF lenses with Peaking. And we can expect those prices to drop another 10-20% quite quickly.
Great video too (60fps). Unlike the NEX 7 the 5N has a touch-screen, though I won't be buying the viewfinder for just another $350 (500 for the camera and 350 for VF - what the hell are they thinking) !! I'll skip the Zeiss 24/1.8 at US$1,000 too - you can get the best 21mm ever made (Contax Zeiss Distagon 21/2.8 ) used for not much more ! Sony have said they will bring out another 10 lenses within the next year.
Whilst I see it as a back up and just to be able to slip into my pocket on occasions when I don't want to cart along a DSLR and backpack along (it goes everywhere with me now, work, play, eating out) others will see it as their primary camera. TBH I found that (after testing the Nex C3 in the shop), with MF lenses, the CIF on the K5 works much faster and maybe a little more accurately than Peaking on the C3. However that may change with more practice.
DPreview overview here:- Sony NEX-7 high-end APS-C mirrorless camera first look: Digital Photography Review
NEX-5n samples: http://www.photographyblog.com/previ..._nex_5n_photos
(pre-production body/firmware)
http://frogfish.smugmug.com/ Pentax. Pentax DA*300/4, Cosina 55/1.2, Lens Baby Composer Pro & Edge 80, AFA x1.7, Metz 50 af1.
Nikon. D800. D600. Sigma 500/4.5, Nikon 300/2.8 VRII, Sigma 120-300/2.8, Zeiss Distagon ZF2 21/2.8, Zeiss Distagon ZF2 35/2.0, Sigma 50/1.4, Nikkor 85/1.8, Nikon TC20EIII, Nikon TC14EII, Kenko x1.4, Sigma 2.0
Nikon. D800. D600. Sigma 500/4.5, Nikon 300/2.8 VRII, Sigma 120-300/2.8, Zeiss Distagon ZF2 21/2.8, Zeiss Distagon ZF2 35/2.0, Sigma 50/1.4, Nikkor 85/1.8, Nikon TC20EIII, Nikon TC14EII, Kenko x1.4, Sigma 2.0
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314 posts
15 years
Watford
The NEX7 seems to have pushed the price to mid to high end DSLRs territory so a high quality Pentax offering even at the 800-900£ mark is not out of the question while managing to gather quite a lot of interest. What everybody seems to be saying though is that still the NEX7 lacks the lenses lineup especially in the pancake style lenses department.
What I am trying to say is that when it comes to DSLRs no matter how wonderful the K-5 and K-r is Canicon have the market cornered. No question. However there is plenty of room in the still increasing EVIL market.
And Pentax seems to understand a heck of a lot more than Sony about diminutive high quality lenses, ergonomics and construction. Far as I can see there are two pancakes in their lineup, one a bit impractical and not all that well received (16mm) the other a £1000 24mm Zeiss.