Pentax K-5?

It seems that Hoya had some influence on that if you read the interview with Ned Bunnel, but they don't bring out new products monthly so it takes time to see the difference.

To clarify, what I mean by a streamlined product range is one were there is a clearly defined ratcheting up of features in models along with price; objectively and subjectively that includes sensor capabilities.

Obviously there is group that argues better high ISO performance is unnecessary for serious photography. However, I find it hard to accept that this view is based on anything other than some sort of superstitious interpretation of film photography folklore. Surely the point of being able to adjust aperture and shutterspeed is to give the experienced photographer exposure flexibility. By improving high ISO performance that flexibility is greatly enhanced, for example allowing you to take far more small aperture shots handheld. Rationally speaking it is quite simply a losing proposition to argue for less flexibility.

And even we one accepts the superstitious view that the market has been duped by slick advertising, which is in general a possibility I am far from hostile to, it is simply madness to ignore this from a marketing perspective, since it is de facto a key metric defining the competition’s high end offerings. Ya gotta play the game!

Alas here I believe Pentax’s key strategic weakness is exposed; they appear to have little to no in-house sensor development capabilities, relying on third parties (eg Samsung, Sony) to deliver the goods. Furthermore, I bet the bought in sensors come with extensive software development packages to greatly facilitate overall product design.

This means that although the Kx appears to be doing relatively well at present, the sensor delivers no sustainable competitive advantage to Pentax, as it is presumably available to anybody on an arms length basis. Indeed maybe Pentax are sticking with Samsung for the highend, to keep alive hopes of salvaging their previously much closer strategic relationship, which undoubtedly appears to be on the rocks, notwithstanding Ned Burrel’s bizarre recent comments.

Furthermore, without having seen ‘current’ volume figures for the market I would guess it is well down from the peak, and it seems to me certainly Nikon and Sony have been holding back on genuine new model introductions, likely intending to launch into better market conditions. And needless to say in a range of colours if that is deemed to be having a material market impact.

Separately, the relative success of the Kx likely pales into insignificance compared to that of micro 4/3 in general and Olympus in particular, and a major shift in the composition of the enthusiast market segment is almost certainly underway.

However, the future is inherently uncertain, and after a very long dry spell Pentax finally appears to have some positive market momentum in the dslr segment, if only from a tiny base. They need to capitalise on this and get their product line-up streamlined urgently, and if that necessitates giving up on Samsung they should do so quickly, since their sensor designs in any case don’t seem to be cutting the mustard.

Shaky just some points.
I at least rather have a good ISO 100 or better yet ISO 50 then a clean ISO 1600, it seems I'm one of the view that thinks that way but I'm sure some studio shooters agree with me. One of the reasons I haven't upgraded, the lower ISO aren't as good as those on the K10D.

You're right about the sensor but Nikon also don't have an in house sensor so that isn't the problem, besides that Pentax aren't an electronic expert so I would not trust them with a sensor to begin with.

During the time of the K-X launch Nikon also launched the D3000 and the D5000 quite a genuine new model if you ask me and Sony brought two DSLR with the same sensor as the K-X, I've no idea how they are doing in the market.

I've no idea if they will hold hands with Samsung or not but that's the closest they get to an in house sensor and Samsung is busy with back lighted sensor which looks good on paper... but everything looks good on paper right
Also Pentax don't need to sell so much as Nikon, Canon or the others, since there cost are lower and tehy seem to hold it out for quite some years now in the same position so I don't see why we should worry.

How about a brave move and produce a true photography student digital camera - a sort of digital Pentax MX.

My ideal spec would be as follows:

-Full frame sensor with dust control
-Manual (and possibly Aperture Priority) only
-Spot metering and Centre Weighted
-Depth of Field Preview
-Manual Focus - there are thousands of excellent lenses out there available to be had for a song
-Good ISO performance (more important than pixels)
-High Sync speed
-Large clear viewfinder (100% x1.0)
-Small, light, decent battery life
-Bright, high res screen

Stefan, I’ll try to briefly outline some further thoughts on the sensor issue.

First of all I believe Nikon - certainly in the past - have some sort of sensor co-development alliance with Sony, in which case they do have in-house capabilities, perhaps with a stake in relevant patents, IP etc.

However, the question of in-house capabilities in general is anyway not something I necessarily see as a key strategic issue in future, although it is surely problematic for Pentax today. Emerging industries like photo sensors naturally undergo a process of competitive selection where the best products tend to emerge from the field over time. If after such a market shakeup those products were to come from say Sony, that makes no difference to the camera market at that stage, as long as the sensors are widely available. Which they would likely have to be to get into a dominant position in the first place

What I am saying is that the Kx’s IQ - which is clearly winning plaudits - is not a long term product differentiator in the market; rather it is to a large extent generic to the sensor. And on this basis Pentax are in fact at a considerable competitive disadvantage, since they are undoubtedly unable to obtain similar volume discounts to the market leaders. Of course the colour factor may also be driving sales but again this is obviously not necessarily unique to the Kx.

The reality is that regardless of the length of time it takes for the sensor market to become commoditised, Pentax is now already strategically positioned largely as a packager of third party technology, competing wholly on marketing skills. And If I were a betting man which I am, it seems to me the formbook suggests exceptionally long odds of success for that business model. However, it is likely the best option available barring a complete closure, which I’m afraid in my view still appears the logical option for Hoya given the chronically loss-making operations.

I'm no market expert and not pretending to be one.

Pentax K-X seems to appeal to a lot of people, the Sony a500 has precisely the same sensor for example but the a500 is hardly sold it seems... which makes you wonder what Pentax did right with the K-X. It's probably the form factor that does it for most people and the good reviews on the net.
Here are some actual numbers, Japan only link
Pentax is 4 times in the top 20 with 2 models with 2 colours, it seems their tactic seems to work instead of overflowing the market with models like Sony does.
(I love the silver K7 if it was better on some points then I would be in financial problems right now )

Pentax does have a patent on an new prism design which has a lower profile very suited for MF camera's but the 645D does not have it... I wonder why they aren't using it. It would make the MF camera slightly larger then the top ranging FF cameras, maybe we would see that in the future...

About if Pentax has a long-life... I don't know they have taken in quite a lot of new users with the K-M and the K-X so who knows, hoping they would bring out some good budget lenses. Some good budget primes for example would be interesting.

I think that only over 2 years we can say something if Hoya did good with Pentax or not, it's too early for that. All we can say that the Entry models of Pentax brought out under Hoya do work and having the freedom to select the best 3th party product is of course also good.

About the loss making every camera company has being making losses in the crisis but the EVIL camera's seem to be the new trend... Like I said over 2 years we would have a clearer picture, now it just have been crazy times all over the world.