Pentax K-1 Mark II rumours


Fishbones

Link Posted 27/01/2018 - 20:44
I think the point that is missed is that as a professional you need to be assured you camera nails focus as often as possible. The big aperture will give you an advantage of at least 1 stop and I shooting in low light or changing light conditions the large aperture would give the focusing system an advantage over slower lenses. I agree that for me it would only amount in an inconvenience but if you are making a living out of it, the extra investment may well and probably be worth the cost.
"Twelve significant photographs in any one year is a good crop." Ansel Adams

McGregNi

Link Posted 27/01/2018 - 20:58
Yes of course, you're right, the extra AF performance might make it well worthwhile if you can afford it. I wish we had a choice though, and new F4 zooms would be a great addition to the range I feel, and would prove popular too.
My Guides to the Pentax Digital Camera Flash Lighting System : Download here from the PentaxForums Homepage Article .... link
Pentax K7 with BG-4 Grip / Samyang 14mm f2.8 ED AS IF UMC / DA18-55mm f3.5-5.6 AL WR / SMC A28mm f2.8 / D FA 28-105mm / SMC F35-70 f3.5-4.5 / SMC A50mm f1.7 / Tamron AF70-300mm f4-5.6 Di LD macro / SMC M75-150mm f4.0 / Tamron Adaptall (CT-135) 135mm f2.8 / Asahi Takumar-A 2X tele-converter / Pentax AF-540FGZ (I & II) Flashes / Cactus RF60/X Flashes & V6/V6II Transceiver

Fishbones

Link Posted 27/01/2018 - 21:05
too true, I am with you and as far as wide angle I will


would be happy with a sharp and corrected F4 version as I would be shooting at f8 and above. I guess apart from an advantage for the focusing system and the creative technique of large apertures, obtaining the sweet spot of a lens should be easily achieved with an f4 version. I would rather have weather resistant capabilities to match the K series cameras
"Twelve significant photographs in any one year is a good crop." Ansel Adams

darkskies

Link Posted 27/01/2018 - 23:32
McGregNi wrote:
Thanks Darkskies for your detailed explanation and specific scenario examples. I do accept that really low light shooters will be wanting all the help they can get!

My point was mainly about the relative cost / size /weight / IQ equation, which is clearly a fairly complex equation for each individual. I was just thinking that the price for one stop wider aperture on a lens is quite high ..... But that the cost of one stop higher ISO nowadays is considerably less. Processing abilities and software choices for noise reduction are going to add a lot of value for some as well.

Good luck at the Gig tonight ....ah, can you take a few at F4 with one stop higher ISO for us please

Oh yes, I meant to ask, I was thinking of trying out some gigs .... Does anyone know what sort of maximum aperture lens I should be looking for to pair up with the K7 ....?

In the end, I got part way there and had to come back home. Something cropped up. Got another one on Wednesday. Bit better lit there, actually.

However, I do agree with you. If it wasn't for me doing gig photography I wouldn't need f2.8. Paying for f2.8 isn't money well spent if you don't need it.

And to your question, would I take some at f4, the answer would have been no, as I know how far I can push the ISO, and f4 would have been quite useless at this venue. Of course, if the venue is much brighter then I could use f4, and you wouldn't see a great deal of difference in IQ, as long as it was a lot brighter, so that I could use 1/250 sec, f4, and ISO 6400. So, in other words, it would have to be brighter than any of the gigs I have shot at so far!

Anyway, now you understand why it's necessary. But I do wonder why Pentax didn't develop the f4 lenses first, as they would be more popular than the more expensive 15-30 and 24-70 f2.8 lenses.
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RobL

Link Posted 28/01/2018 - 08:49
darkskies wrote:


Anyway, now you understand why it's necessary. But I do wonder why Pentax didn't develop the f4 lenses first, as they would be more popular than the more expensive 15-30 and 24-70 f2.8 lenses.

The trinity of f2.8 FF lenses, 15-30, 24-70 and 70-200, are standard in the Canonikon ranges especially for landscapes so it makes sense for Pentax to offer these. However as has been said to carry all three is a significant load and that has stopped me from getting the large one so far. The 24-70 stays on the camera most of the time, and whilst the 15-30 is a super lens it does create a space problem if you want a set of 150 size filters as well. I have found for landscapes I tend to use the 15-30 more at the longer end which the 24-70 can cover, but is essential for interiors. It has taken three attempts to find a backpack of dimensions to accommodate these without being too bulky so an f4 telezoom would be welcome, and a super wide prime would be a huge bonus.
Last Edited by RobL on 28/01/2018 - 08:51

McGregNi

Link Posted 28/01/2018 - 12:08
darkskies wrote:
....

Anyway, now you understand why it's necessary......

Hmm, I'm not quite there yet, still struggling a bit. . It's been great to read some of your thinking and how it's applied in the real life low light situation.

I do wonder if your upper ISO limits are quite conservative for the K1? I am curious as a potential future buyer. I had imagined that the K1 was very good up to at least ISO 12,800? And ok in low light at 26,200 ?

I'm trying to understand whether the ISO limits you referred to are real technical barriers, or more the result of human psychology?
My Guides to the Pentax Digital Camera Flash Lighting System : Download here from the PentaxForums Homepage Article .... link
Pentax K7 with BG-4 Grip / Samyang 14mm f2.8 ED AS IF UMC / DA18-55mm f3.5-5.6 AL WR / SMC A28mm f2.8 / D FA 28-105mm / SMC F35-70 f3.5-4.5 / SMC A50mm f1.7 / Tamron AF70-300mm f4-5.6 Di LD macro / SMC M75-150mm f4.0 / Tamron Adaptall (CT-135) 135mm f2.8 / Asahi Takumar-A 2X tele-converter / Pentax AF-540FGZ (I & II) Flashes / Cactus RF60/X Flashes & V6/V6II Transceiver

johnriley

Link Posted 28/01/2018 - 13:34
From the K-5 onwards, there has been a sea change in the ISO performance of Pentax DSLRs. With the K-1 I would just use whatever ISO is necessary to ensure lack of camera shake. Yes, the higher values will show more noise, but only like a fast film would have been expected to show more grain. It is so much better though than film ever was that we are almost totally freed in normal circumstances from it even being a concern.

As for f/2.8, this seems to have become a fast lens, probably because of the ascendancy of zoom lenses, but for prime lenses it is not at all fast. Lenses of f/2 and faster are fast lenses as I know them, so we are in the realms of the original three Limited lenses, the 50mm f/1.4, the upcoming 85mm f/1.8 and so on.
Best regards, John

McGregNi

Link Posted 28/01/2018 - 18:19
It sounds like TAv mode has really come of age now! It's not one I've used, as it has limited practical potential with a camera that places strict constraints on the usable ISO range.

But with true ISO freedom then TAv can really fly!

Are Darkskies low light ISO limits generally the accepted end of the range (for serious work) ?
My Guides to the Pentax Digital Camera Flash Lighting System : Download here from the PentaxForums Homepage Article .... link
Pentax K7 with BG-4 Grip / Samyang 14mm f2.8 ED AS IF UMC / DA18-55mm f3.5-5.6 AL WR / SMC A28mm f2.8 / D FA 28-105mm / SMC F35-70 f3.5-4.5 / SMC A50mm f1.7 / Tamron AF70-300mm f4-5.6 Di LD macro / SMC M75-150mm f4.0 / Tamron Adaptall (CT-135) 135mm f2.8 / Asahi Takumar-A 2X tele-converter / Pentax AF-540FGZ (I & II) Flashes / Cactus RF60/X Flashes & V6/V6II Transceiver

darkskies

Link Posted 28/01/2018 - 18:42
McGregNi wrote:
darkskies wrote:
....

Anyway, now you understand why it's necessary......

Hmm, I'm not quite there yet, still struggling a bit. . It's been great to read some of your thinking and how it's applied in the real life low light situation.

I do wonder if your upper ISO limits are quite conservative for the K1? I am curious as a potential future buyer. I had imagined that the K1 was very good up to at least ISO 12,800? And ok in low light at 26,200 ?

I'm trying to understand whether the ISO limits you referred to are real technical barriers, or more the result of human psychology?

It depends on the image quality you want/need. The image quality at 12,800 isn't sufficient for me. I'm attempting to take pro level photos, not souvenir shots. OK is not good enough.

John just mentioned using a high enough ISO to stop camera shake. But camera shake is not the defining problem in gig photography, it's the movement of the subjects, so the shutter speed has to be faster.

Of course, you could retain the noise if you wanted to........

I think the only reason you're not quite there yet is that you don't believe me.
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StephenHampshire

Link Posted 28/01/2018 - 18:50
darkskies wrote:
McGregNi wrote:
Quote:
....

Anyway, now you understand why it's necessary......

Hmm, I'm not quite there yet, still struggling a bit. . It's been great to read some of your thinking and how it's applied in the real life low light situation.

I do wonder if your upper ISO limits are quite conservative for the K1? I am curious as a potential future buyer. I had imagined that the K1 was very good up to at least ISO 12,800? And ok in low light at 26,200 ?

I'm trying to understand whether the ISO limits you referred to are real technical barriers, or more the result of human psychology?

It depends on the image quality you want/need. The image quality at 12,800 isn't sufficient for me. I'm attempting to take pro level photos, not souvenir shots. OK is not good enough.

John just mentioned using a high enough ISO to stop camera shake. But camera shake is not the defining problem in gig photography, it's the movement of the subjects, so the shutter speed has to be faster.

Of course, you could retain the noise if you wanted to........

I think the only reason you're not quite there yet is that you don't believe me.

Also DR is reduced dramatically at high ISO's which is a problem in high contrast situations ( such as a mainly dark stage with bright spotlights illuminating performers and shiny drumkits! Or steam locos with white steam in my case.)
Out of interest does anyone use ISO invariance to shoot at much lower ISO and the push in processing? I've tried this but get some rather nasty noise in the shadow areas.
Everything Changes
http://www.flickr.com/photos/arleimages/

darkskies

Link Posted 28/01/2018 - 19:14
StephenHampshire wrote:

Also DR is reduced dramatically at high ISO's which is a problem in high contrast situations ( such as a mainly dark stage with bright spotlights illuminating performers and shiny drumkits! Or steam locos with white steam in my case.)
Out of interest does anyone use ISO invariance to shoot at much lower ISO and the push in processing? I've tried this but get some rather nasty noise in the shadow areas.

Thanks, that adds a bit more reasoning.

To answer your question, no, I do not do as you suggest. I have found, like it seems you have found, that the noise is pretty horrible when you boost the exposure in post. My best results are when my image is well exposed at the time of taking.
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McGregNi

Link Posted 28/01/2018 - 19:27
I'll "get there" the more the quality discussion continues, that's what it's all about. There's been some great practical value added here, on top of the starting point which was "we need F2.8 for low light gig photography".

For now my own low light shots are taken at ISO 100, F8 and 1/180th sec ! (Do you think I would be allowed to set up about 4 flashes at a gig? ... I'm thinking one on the left, one to the right, one high from the back and one from in front !!)

I take your point Stephen also. I feel that Noise processing capabilities also play their part on an individual level.

I'm not sure that the K1 has been demonstrated to be ISO invarient?
My Guides to the Pentax Digital Camera Flash Lighting System : Download here from the PentaxForums Homepage Article .... link
Pentax K7 with BG-4 Grip / Samyang 14mm f2.8 ED AS IF UMC / DA18-55mm f3.5-5.6 AL WR / SMC A28mm f2.8 / D FA 28-105mm / SMC F35-70 f3.5-4.5 / SMC A50mm f1.7 / Tamron AF70-300mm f4-5.6 Di LD macro / SMC M75-150mm f4.0 / Tamron Adaptall (CT-135) 135mm f2.8 / Asahi Takumar-A 2X tele-converter / Pentax AF-540FGZ (I & II) Flashes / Cactus RF60/X Flashes & V6/V6II Transceiver
Last Edited by McGregNi on 28/01/2018 - 19:32

darkskies

Link Posted 28/01/2018 - 19:41
Gig photography - normally, 3 songs, no flash. Unless it's a small venue, but it's still no flash.
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DOIK

Link Posted 28/01/2018 - 20:12
A few stats from Lightroom.
Exposures F1.8 to F3.5 8876: f4 1439 from a total of 15,488
High ISO. 6400 4379; 12800 4235; 25600 506
I will be out on Friday and the ISO 12800 count will be increased, I will be using aF2.8 and a f1.8.
As for F4 that went into retirement years ago.

John
My Photobucket

RobL

Link Posted 28/01/2018 - 20:15
Acceptable noise depends on the subject, 12800 ISO is the absolute max I would use as a record shot but I have rejected bird photos at that level as detail is crucial. OTH I have acceptable interior shots in the 3200-6400 range as the files respond very well to noise reduction in Lightroom, far better than those from my K50 did. Incidentally I also use Franzis Denoise software but the results are nothing like as good as from Lightroom.

Back to an earlier point, f2.8 means that I can still get a reading through a 6-stop ND filter.
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