Pentax Full Frame Comment

How many does the K30 have in total?

There's two on the knob itself. If there's any more I haven't found them... hate menu diving ;P

Firstly Pentax needed more cameras - now achieved. Having only two DSLRs in the lineup puts them at a disadvantage in the shop window. Canikon have at least half a dozen on display each, giving more shelf space and prominence.

Being honest, users of other systems are unlikely to change to another without a very good reason. New users need to be educated with decent advice - far too many are simply sold Canikon because the half the shop is dedicated to them and Pentax don't get a look in. One chain I was in (now defunct) even stated you can't get new Pentax lenses - try ebay - whilst I was holding/considering buying (I didn't) a DA 15 Ltd from their shop.

There's nothing wrong with the cameras, most users don't come close to getting the most out of their gear (I know I don't). I want certain features and a certain level of control but most of the features on DSLRs are unnecessary/hardly used.

I do know a number of people who simply see a DSLR as another piece of gadget techiness, they care mostly about the 'image' the camera makes when it's around their neck, cost/features rarely come into it. The main selling points will soon not be photographic/video related but integrated smart phone/tablet operating systems, integrated social media connections and so on.

John.

These modern-day social media integration features will surely be more relavant to the compact & CSC sector than DSLRs? There's a clear move taking place in these more compact models to combine these smart-phone aspects in a camera device that offers better IQ and control than than can squeezed out of a phone.

Do we really imagine that DSLR users will be looking for Android, facebook apps etc on their next models?

I would not refuse to buy a dslr if it had usb3 or thunderbolt connectivity and a tablet app that allowed for teathering and live view and a few other apps...

I wouldn't see any point to facebook uploads at 20 mp though!

You can just imagine models imploring you to directly upload unedited shoots to their facebook account! I wouldn't mind a camera that synced with my G+ or flickr so I could review shots myself though. But it's not remotely a 'priority' for me...

I agree that many of the special features and finer controls available on our top-spec models would be lost in the marketing stampede and not even understood at the point of sale, which is a pity, as Pentax certainly should keep competing on its reputation for ergonomics, ease of use and handling etc.

The problem is that much of the detail of this is lost to many - 'not a priority'. Even here, I'm certainly in a minority in trying to highlight some of the key customisations available on the DSLRs and how they can help in the field for specific shooting situations - (eg: the reaction to my 'checklist' was almost entirely dismissive, yet it was nothing but an attempt to provoke more thinking on the range of options contained in the menus and controls - specific options on the cameras that are, yes, unique to Pentax in the specific manner of their presentation, so something to be shouted about I'd have thought).

So I disagree that a lot of this stuff is unnecessary - hardly used, Ok, but worth exploring more to spread understanding of its practical application. I only hope that the next generation continues to offer the best of the handling features and control customisation options of the K7 / K5 series.

Well the rumour turbines are spiining out of control at the minute, so I gusee somethings afoot. I'm with you Neil, they can pretty much do what they want, It is Ricoh's (Imagine Change) company after all. As long as they don't stuff up the handling, I'm not expecting to want/like/need, everything that comes with the next model but if it does not handle well, all the bells and whistles are not worth stuff all to me frankly...
They have to include a broad spread of features at this level, which means there is a lot of computing power that goes on things like HDR/Filters/Multiple exposures/Timelapse etc. Some would feel this is wasted but to a few others they are essential, there are other battery draining items that may be introduced like WIFI, nad GPS (My Sony A77 lasted only half a day because I left the GPS on, on one occasion)! They are all just icing on the cake but you gotta make people want the cake in the first place!
Me I'd like a digital LX but not as my only Camera...

It's a marketing-driven world sadly, and to sell cameras manufacturers are compelled to offer an autopilot mode, which normally renders a lot of the advanced features of Pentaxes (and others) redundant. I've lost count of the number of canikons with kit lenses that I've seen around necks that seem to be in the default position of easy mode with the built-in flash up, or pops up when the shutter is half-depressed. Makes me more than half-depressed! It's easy to put your camera on green mode on all controls and shoot JPGs, no adjustment, no compensations. No hassle, no complexity, point and shoot, marketer's dream. You probably don't even need superlative ergonomics for that.

The fun starts though when you get off the green mode, and start to explore the menu options for what you want the camera to do for you. There are no rights, no wrongs; even green mode is ok if you're content with that. People like Tav mode; me, I tend to use hyper-Av, shooting RAW. The flexibility of the K-5 is a marvel of design and engineering, and it's fun understanding it and using it. If you want small DOF, yes, by all means get a Limited prime; I tend to shoot Pentax zooms mainly (16-45, 55-300) because at the aperture range I typically use (f7-13), there's virtually no difference in performance for my preferred wide DOF. But you only get out what you put in, and my camera will give me more than I'm capable of needing. So 36x24 won't be an issue for me.

Yep!

Handling, size and build quality are the three Pentax standouts for me, I hope they continue, to do so they need all the "Me too" stuff as well, as you say, market driven...

Its the gadgety useless features that sell cameras though. The salesman is more likley to be able to explain and show the benefits of a hdr feature in store than the benefits of say a full frame sensor.

Many sales people still make the fundamental mistake of explaining the features but not the benefits.

Listening to people selling in camera stores can be excruciating at times, definitely on a par with those wonderful John Cleese films for sales training.

I love those old John Cleese training films; some were better than Fawlty Towers! But the point is well-made; and any of today's Pentaxes can and do give excellent results. It's horses for courses; it's the tools for the job that should drive a camera selection - but of course it doesn't typically work like that. Flagging up the latest HDR mode during a sales pitch just (maybe unknowingly) disguises the fact that with say, a K-5's 14-bit architecture, you might well be able to get more out of a RAW file than you'd get in a JPG-based HDR picture, which to my eyes has looked curiously flat on the odd occasion that I've tried it out.

Even after a couple of years I still marvel at what the K-5 and good lenses can produce, even for an old duffer like me. So, as I said, no 36x24 for me. (Still can't bring myself to call it 'full fr...' cough, cough, as there were larger film-based frames than 35mm, not to mention our own 645D.)

Although I mostly use TAV mode, and second AV mode, I sometimes use autopilot modes, when there isn't time to set anything up and the moment might ne gone. Autopilot modes aren't just there for people who don't know how to use the other modes.

As long as we enjoy using our cameras to our abilities then I can't see any reason to get depressed or half depressed at what others do.

As a professional of some 36 years standing, outside the studio I have no problem at all with 'P' Mode and in the studio I always shoot jPeg.