Pentax Full Frame Comment

Now that's something I would love to eavesdrop on - a salesperson explaining the benefits of a 'FF' sensor! That would be fascinating. I know myself that I'd be able to explain a lot better certain things I have heard discussed in shops, but now, a FF sensor to an uniformed customer ... that would be a challenge I think to carry off in a balanced way. In a technical and numbers way, thats the easy bit .. 'it's bigger, more detail, better IQ, high iso noise ...' But to actually relate those qualities to an individual customer's needs, and their specific financial / value equation ... that is the hard bit that would surely tax the majority of camera shop salespeople!

I'd tell them about other stuff you can do on Pentax DSLRs :

- how about the ability to link the metering bias to the active focus point (or not) depending on subject type

- or how to precisely control the settings that are retained in memory after power off - on, for time saving on a shoot - eg WB, drive mode, ISO defaults etc

- or that you can control 'one push bracketing' to provide a burst of brackets with a single press, or if needed individual exposure brackets with multiple presses

- Or that both 'Program Line' and 'auto-ISO range' can offer a degree extra control or bias to your subject even in P mode

- or that you can control whether WB presets are fixed values, or allow the camera to provide small fine adjustments, or also that tungsten WB can warmed automatically with either a 'subtle' or 'strong' correction, and that you can control what WB will deafult to when using flash.

These are just some examples of what I see as significant aids to image making (if we take advantage of them and explore) that are worth highlighting. NO, I don't know if the competition offer it all, but Pentax certainly do on its top range models!

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Which is precisely why they don't bother! The fact it's got a bigger sensor is obviously a selling point in itself, doesn't need much further explanation; aside from that it's much easier to say it's 'more pro' and you get 'moar bokeh', and 'all the pros use full frame' etc than get into the technical niceties!

And since when have sales people addressed people's 'individual financial/value equation'... generally they try and sell you the most expensive model they can get away with !

To be fair, a good sales person will try to match what they can offer with what the customer needs. That may or may not be what they think they want. If these two things are matched then the customer should be happy and return again and again.

Of course there's no point in matching with something that can't be supplied, so we'd think it pretty strange if a Canon shop sent everyone away because they thought Pentax were better.

That comes back to my question of how to identify that need for ff with any individual, assuming they're onot already convinced solely by the 'bigger, pro's use it' arguments. I've been noticing lately that none of the members who advertise their Pentax kit to 'go ff' ever identify exactly what aspects of the larger format are suddenly an absolute necessity.

It's only by matching these individuals with specific photographic needs that we can develop a means of categorizing the different options as ideal for specific types of photographer.

Anyway, doesn't anyone think it worthwhile plugging the option of 'fixed or auto adjust tungsten white balance' when considering camera models?

The problem with your previous list Nigel was that it was suggested it be used every time someone went to shoot something - an unrealistic expectation I think.

All DSLRs have lots of options, probably all digital cameras actually. I set up my new cameras once to what I use and then apart from something specific cropping up, that's it. I concentrate on the images after that.

It's apparent though that when I do a workshop on camera settings then many photographers have no idea what's in there or what it's all for.

The merits of FF are well rehearsed on this forum, and elsewhere on the internet... they don't need to offer any 'justification'! Presumably they've just reached a point where they realise they can afford it, or they just really want it. Besides they'd be shut down pretty fast if they started extolling the virtues of their new non-Pentax kit...

There's a point I'm surprised no-one has made (unless I've missed it in this somewhat lengthy thread). Pentax may not actually sell that many FF sensor cameras if they were to produce one, but it would have a very marked effect on the Pentax brand as a whole, which would likely induce many more customers to buy cameras lower down the range.

People like the association with ultimate quality, even if they don't actually want to fork out the money to buy the top-end product itself. At the moment, Pentax is not associated with the ultimate in photographic quality, because it does not have a real high-end option. If it did, all other products in the range would acquire a kind of reflected glory, and thus higher sales. Logically it makes no real sense, but that's consumerism for you.

What about the 645D then?

Pentax have ultimate Quality, the 645D, a whole 4Mp more than any current 35mm Frame size DSLR...

I posted but you must have just beat me to the draw Epithet Man! Your post did not show up before mine a minute ago but I bow to your greater keyboard prowess...

OK, I should have said DSLR ultimate quality. It's different. I don't think your average first-time buyer of an SLR would even know what a medium-format camera was.

Pentax do have the 645D 'medium format' digital camera - I don't know the specs of that (is it 40mp or so?) and a high quality lens range to go with it. You don't get much more 'high end' than that. But its a niche product, and maybe will never have the visability in the market to have the kind of 'knock-on' effect you're thinking of?

Then they wouldn't know what a full frame was either

I suppose we could continue to quibble as the 645D is definitely a DSLR, just in a different format. That's no different to "FF" or APS-C, they are all DSLRs.

People buy for the first time for some amazingly wooly reasons, or maybe they over-research, or maybe they just see something they fancy. The mind of the buyer can be a mysterious and fragile thing.

Some more conjecture but if it happens all good.

The specs leaked on Photorumors from Sep. 23 appear to be mostly correct: 24MP Sony sensor, new autofocus system with more AF points, no AA filter, some new RGB sensor for either metering or AF not sure which.

Some new tidbits for you to consider tonight:

-New flash system

-The AF sensors are *all* cross sensors

-Tracking AF ! !

-Some new in-camera functions not further specified

-The body is similar to the K5, but something about Ricoh doing something different with the display.

Well that this certainly sounds like Ricoh may indeed be quite serious about expanding the Pentax lineup. Hope the announcement comes beginning of October, not towards the end. There is talk it will be Oct. 8.

I also heard something very specific about FF for next year that I nearly couldn't believe and I'm trying to get confirmed. Will let you know if I do. Also something about pro-level support...wow! 2014 could be a very big year for the brand if this holds water.

PRO SUPPORT!