Pentax FF Dead, Maybe


MattyH

Link Posted 16/08/2013 - 12:32
Now before I start, I know this is yet another thread of thousands that have been started before. But.

I work in marketing and happened to speak to someone in China last night who works for a firm who is contract out to another firm that works with Pentax/Ricoh in Far East marketing.

I was informed that Ricoh have pulled all the funding and the contract for the future Pentax FF camera from that contract and informed the said company they may require them again in the next 18-24 months.

Now I just thought Ricoh may have just wanted to change contracts to a different company, but as far as any of us can tell, no one else has had any other contact or info on why they have done this, except the whole FF project has either been pulled or put back due to other projects.

Please be aware this is third hand info, but it is from someone I have had dealings with for the past 10 years and who I trust.

Just thought I would share..

McBrian

Link Posted 16/08/2013 - 12:43
Well with a reported 40%+ decline in US camera sales I would not be surprised if this were true, seems a logical step back in what would be a very expensive R&D/production program with no guarantee of success.
Cheers
Brian.
LBA is good for you, a Lens a day helps you work, rest and play.
Last Edited by McBrian on 16/08/2013 - 12:55

Jonathan-Mac

Link Posted 16/08/2013 - 12:44
It's not first-hand info so certainly to be taken with a large grain of salt.

If it's true, it's good news, as now is not the time for a Pentax FF camera. Now is the time to expand and re-vamp the lens line-up for APS-C cameras.
Pentax hybrid user - Digital K3 & K200D, film 645 and 35mm SLR and Pentax (&other) lenses adapted to Fuji X digital
Fan of DA limited and old manual lenses

johnriley

Link Posted 16/08/2013 - 12:52
Interesting gossip, but that's the only level of it really.

If I were making the decisions I wouldn't be going into Full Frame at this time, I'd be concentrating on expanding a very fine APS-C range.
Best regards, John

MattyH

Link Posted 16/08/2013 - 13:00
johnriley wrote:
Interesting gossip, but that's the only level of it really.

If I were making the decisions I wouldn't be going into Full Frame at this time, I'd be concentrating on expanding a very fine APS-C range.

Quite agree, I couldn't afford to upgrade for the next couple of years or have any need to anyway.

But in business in China, Gossip is usually 99% fact, but like I said this is third hand info and only time will tell. Maybe it's a new Ricoh branded APS-C SLR that's on the horizon?

Algernon

Link Posted 16/08/2013 - 13:02
A Pentax FF camera wouldn't need any marketing

Demand for FF is low though. The Pentax KiiS is now selling well
in Japan at No: 39.. The K30 with the 18-135 is also selling well at
No: 43. Both are ahead of the Nikon D600 at No: 49. The D800
isn't even in the Top 80.

http://bcnranking.jp/category/subcategory_0008.html

The Kiis is below 600... I don't know how much it
was previously.

--


-
Half Man... Half Pentax ... Half Cucumber

Pentax K-1 + K-5 and some other stuff

Algi
Last Edited by Algernon on 16/08/2013 - 13:05

johnriley

Link Posted 16/08/2013 - 13:11
Thanks Algi, it makes interesting reading. Sony must be very unhappy.

What does strike me is that the Pentax colour options all seem to be treated as separate cameras, so if we instead added those together it might make the position very much higher.
Best regards, John

MattyH

Link Posted 16/08/2013 - 13:45
I think think everybody's in the same boat, as Canon sales are down 19% on this time last year and all interchangeable lens camera sales are down 23%.Worldwide.

So what we have seen is bargains for all, unless you are a seller, and our own kit has taken a nose dive in value.

My opinion is that nothing new has joined the party for the last 5 years, nothing that was so evolutional that we all had to upgrade our kit no matter what it cost.

froeschle

Link Posted 16/08/2013 - 13:55
Hopefully, this gossip is untrue!

http://ricehigh.blogspot.de/2013/08/a-latest-interview-with-japanese-ricoh.html
Quote:
Q: Now, what's going on for the Pentax Full Frame thing?

A: Our development team is still working on it and the project is not aborted.

http://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-news-rumors/233394-pentax-there-stay-m...
Quote:
* The Pentax brand name will stay. It will be reserved for "higher end" products like the current K-line, the current Q-line, and the upcoming FF when the technical team figures out all the in's-and-out's.

* There will be a FF Pentax when Pentax/Ricoh and it will come on their schedule. It's not just about megapixels and sensors. There is a whole engine surrounding the sensor to make sure the IQ is good.

Maybe they are intensifying in-house development?
It finally is time for a FF Pentax.
I also got some hints that a prototype already exists.

Pentaxophile

Link Posted 16/08/2013 - 13:56
When we talk about sales being down 23%, is that the camera market as a whole though, or just the ones we are interested in - DSLRs? I've seen reports that DSLR sales are relatively unaffected by the migration to smartphones affecting the compact sector.

As long as Pentax (I mean Ricoh!) can continue to push out K mount bodies and lenses, and survive, I am happy. They don't necessarily have to topple C&N. Just keep on producing great cameras that *enough* people want to use to keep the camera division viable. FF would be nice if they can make it viable, but in all honesty if I went FF I would probably have to pick up an older s/h Nikon body.

Algernon wrote:
Both are ahead of the Nikon D600 at No: 49. The D800 isn't even in the Top 80.

Side note OF COURSE a FF body is going to shift less units than an entry level camera like a K30. The fact that current full framers don't show well amidst the sub-$700 cameras in the BCN ranking shouldn't really come as a surprise to anyone! Does this mean that FF cameras are by their nature 'unviable products'? ;P
[link=https://500px.com/will_brealey/[/link]
Last Edited by Pentaxophile on 16/08/2013 - 13:59

Algernon

Link Posted 16/08/2013 - 14:10
Very roughly Canon/Nikon have about 40% of the market each.
Pentax have around 5% so sell about 1/8th of the number of
Cameras that either Canon or Nikon sell, but they have the
Pro market 98% sewn up, so sales of a Pentax FF would
officially after rounding be around 0%
Half Man... Half Pentax ... Half Cucumber

Pentax K-1 + K-5 and some other stuff

Algi

tyronet2000

Link Posted 16/08/2013 - 14:16
According to Mrs Snap, in my case, that is spot on
Regards
Stan

PPG

johnriley

Link Posted 16/08/2013 - 14:18
Currently sales of the Pentax FF camera are indeed 0% and are likely to remain so until they release one....
Best regards, John

froeschle

Link Posted 16/08/2013 - 14:23
It is not only about sold units or market share.
After rounding, the Pentax APS-C share is also close to 0% .
Anyway, Ricoh produces these cameras.
What is the DSLR absolute market share of the 645D?

'Unviable products'?

falconeye wrote in http://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-news-rumors/176184-pentaxforums-com-ex... regarding Nikon:

Quote:
[...] That's 10% of their total SLR production [...]

with 3000$, it will be actually more like 30% the turnover [...]

All in all, it would mean that the D800 alone will create more than half of Nikon's profit in its first year alone. [...]

Face it, the D800 is a 1 billion $ annual revenue for Nikon.
Never again I want to hear the words "niche" and "full frame" together in one sentence [...]

Nikon's annual full frame business could be worth 3 billion $ [...]

Nikon is now making more profit with FF bodies than APSC bodies. [...]

(see e.g. #128, #144, #148, #149, #151, #239, etc.)


Quote:
Currently sales of the Pentax FF camera are indeed 0% and are likely to remain so until they release one...

MattyH

Link Posted 16/08/2013 - 14:24
Pentaxophile wrote:
When we talk about sales being down 23%, is that the camera market as a whole though, or just the ones we are interested in - DSLRs? I've seen reports that DSLR sales are relatively unaffected by the migration to smartphones affecting the compact sector.

As long as Pentax (I mean Ricoh!) can continue to push out K mount bodies and lenses, and survive, I am happy. They don't necessarily have to topple C&N. Just keep on producing great cameras that *enough* people want to use to keep the camera division viable. FF would be nice if they can make it viable, but in all honesty if I went FF I would probably have to pick up an older s/h Nikon body.

Algernon wrote:
Both are ahead of the Nikon D600 at No: 49. The D800 isn't even in the Top 80.

Side note OF COURSE a FF body is going to shift less units than an entry level camera like a K30. The fact that current full framers don't show well amidst the sub-$700 cameras in the BCN ranking shouldn't really come as a surprise to anyone! Does this mean that FF cameras are by their nature 'unviable products'? ;P

23% of any camera that has interchanging lenses so anything from a Pentax Q to a Nikon D4 and everything in the middle.

Like everything else, sales are always up and down year in year out, but another interesting fact is that camera sales are up in the under 25 year olds.

This is down to the smart phone generation all of a sudden taking a much keener interest in photography after using the ones on their phones, but the price of spend in this segment is in the lower price point and certainly not in FF territory.

Now if you get me a white bored, some tea and coffee and some quality biscuits
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