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Laptop specs - upgrade????

Posted 25/08/2022 - 22:12 Link
Hi, My current laptop is a Dell e6440, about 5 years old and cost £400 - sold as a new "A" condition model with slight case damage.
I mainly use it connected to the mains and a 24" monitor

It has the following specs:
Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-4610M CPU @ 3.00GHz
Max of 16GB Ram – 2x 8GB Crucial DDR3L 1600MHz Laptop DDR3 204Pin SODIMM
Windows 10 Pro - 64-bit operating system, x64-based processor
480GB SATA and a 2TB V-NAND SATA Samsung QVO 860

It's a bit slow processing photos esp with DxO PureRaw2.
What sort of laptop could I invest in for the next 5 years?
What specs do I need re RAM; Graphics, CPU etc pls?

Comment Image
Grumpy GrandPa, Recently Retired.
Gotta K-3iii now, had a K-S2, K50 and so suffering from a relapse and so buying digital camera kit.
Previous addiction has resulted in using Zeniths, Yashicamat, Chinons, Minoltas, Samsungs, Fujis, Cosina, Kodak, Lumix, Canon, Nikon and Pentax etc etc - have tried most makes in the past 50 years. Love cameras - love taking photos even more
Posted 26/08/2022 - 10:24 Link
Budget poss about £500 now due to increase in gas/electricity prices ;-(
Could poss be a bit higher BUT definitely not in the £1k+ range ....
Grumpy GrandPa, Recently Retired.
Gotta K-3iii now, had a K-S2, K50 and so suffering from a relapse and so buying digital camera kit.
Previous addiction has resulted in using Zeniths, Yashicamat, Chinons, Minoltas, Samsungs, Fujis, Cosina, Kodak, Lumix, Canon, Nikon and Pentax etc etc - have tried most makes in the past 50 years. Love cameras - love taking photos even more
Lubbyman
Posted 26/08/2022 - 11:04 - Helpful Comment Link
Interesting. The specs of your current machine are similar to those of the machine I use (you've got more but slower memory and slightly slower processor) and I don't think my machine is particularly slow. Is anything clogging up the machine while you're trying to process photos? Is DxO PureRaw 2 a particularly slow program? Are your expectatins higher than mine (perhaps I'm easily pleased :wink?

If your heart is set on a new computer, why should it be a laptop since most of the time your current machine is plugged into the mains and you use a separate screen? How about looking at small form-factor or mini PCs or even a full-size desktop? That way, all the money goes into things you need rather than a screen, battery, camera etc. You lose portability, but for those occasions when you need to compute on the move your current laptop will still work. For what it's worth, I had the same issue about 4 years ago, made the jump to a mini PC (an Intel NUC, other types are available) and haven't regretted it.

Not sure about how far your budget will go. Prices have gone up due to world shortage of chips, supply chain disruption due to Covid, war, pestilance etc.

Steve
Lubbyman
Posted 26/08/2022 - 11:21 - Helpful Comment Link
To continue ... Just for fun, I've had a look at what a mini PC would cost with 16GB memory and similar storage to your current machine (from the same company that supplied my NUC). And the answer is between £500 and £600. A similar spec laptop would be significantly more ££.

Steve
prsjnb
Posted 26/08/2022 - 17:41 - Helpful Comment Link
PureRaw is, in my opinion, a superb programme. It is, however, one that places huge demands on one's hardware. This is particularly the case if you opt for the DeepPrime option which is heavily GPU dependant. This need not be an issue provided that one is happy to batch process one's files and then find something else productive/enjoyable to do for a couple of hours until the process is complete.

Based on my personal experience, to acheive a worthwhile and noticeable improvement you will need to upgrade to a multi-core (4 or more) CPU (Intel or AMD) released after 2018 running on a platform that supports at least low latency, PC3200 DDR4 memory, possesses a minimum of one NVME.M2 SSD slot and PCIe 4.0 chipset. Whilst many modern CPUs have decent inbuilt GPUs, to leverage fully the potential of the DeepPrime option without incurring a serious time penalty, you are going to need a separate and dedicated GPU. This need not be a particularly recent model nor one that requires additional power connectors. I have used PureRaw with GPUs built around AMD and NVIDIA chipsets without problem, although I understand that the software has been optimised for running with those from the latter.

Unless space and/or portability are priorities, I advise that you pursue the desktop option. With the budget you have specified you will be buying used or refurbished. There is a small potential saving to be had by transferring your existing Windows license to the 'new' machine.

With a system similar to that specified, each 30-35 MB RAW file will take in the region of 18 seconds to process using the DeepPrime option with all buttons checked. Comparing this with the time it currently takes for your current machine to process a typical RAW file should allow you to gauge whether or not the projected saving in time justifies the additional outlay.

Let me know if you would like the full spec of my current machine.
Edited by prsjnb: 26/08/2022 - 18:42
Lubbyman
Posted 26/08/2022 - 18:57 - Helpful Comment Link
... And a new mini-PC with that spec (except 2666 DDR4 memory), a basic 2GB GEFORCE graphics card and 512GB SSD is just under £600, add more ££ for a storage drive.

Over to you, GrumpyGrandPa ...

Steve
Posted 26/08/2022 - 19:22 Link
Thanks for comments folks.
A 34.6MB RAW file took 4 mins and 02 secs to process and produce a DNG file
To develop one into a JPG file only took 2mins 20 secs

Think I'll investigate my working pattern and workflow procedures and see what I need to do to improve things.

Looks like it could be the rule of diminishing returns re investment in a higher speccced machine.

I may, as suggested, be better off looking at a desktop system of some description (happy with 2nd hand) . . . .

Decisions, decisions eh!

Comment Image

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Grumpy GrandPa, Recently Retired.
Gotta K-3iii now, had a K-S2, K50 and so suffering from a relapse and so buying digital camera kit.
Previous addiction has resulted in using Zeniths, Yashicamat, Chinons, Minoltas, Samsungs, Fujis, Cosina, Kodak, Lumix, Canon, Nikon and Pentax etc etc - have tried most makes in the past 50 years. Love cameras - love taking photos even more
Posted 26/08/2022 - 21:49 Link
PRSJNB: Yes please, I would be interested in the full specs of your current machine.
Grumpy GrandPa, Recently Retired.
Gotta K-3iii now, had a K-S2, K50 and so suffering from a relapse and so buying digital camera kit.
Previous addiction has resulted in using Zeniths, Yashicamat, Chinons, Minoltas, Samsungs, Fujis, Cosina, Kodak, Lumix, Canon, Nikon and Pentax etc etc - have tried most makes in the past 50 years. Love cameras - love taking photos even more
Lubbyman
Posted 26/08/2022 - 22:03 - Helpful Comment Link
GrumpyGrandPa wrote:
A 34.6MB RAW file took 4 mins and 02 secs to process and produce a DNG file
To develop one into a JPG file only took 2mins 20 secs

I understand your problem now. A long time to hang around waiting for the computer to do its job but not long enough to go and make a cup of tea.

Steve
tigershoot
Posted 28/08/2022 - 18:16 - Helpful Comment Link
Just out of interest I timed my work Macbook to export a 32meg DNG file to full size JPEG at the highest quality setting with no sharpening. Two seconds. It's the latest spec but does cost £3.5K. If I fire up my 2011 iMac it takes eight seconds (uses a non SSD drive)
Your times seem way too high to me.
On a separate note Grumpy, do you not shoot as DNG? Are you shooting as PEF and the converting to DNG?
K3iii, K3ii, K-5, K-x, DA150-450mm, DA16-85WR, DA16-45, DA18-55WR, DA18-135WR, DA35 F2.4, M100mm F4 Macro, DA55-300mm, FA50mm 1.4, AF360 Flash, AF540 Flash
Posted 28/08/2022 - 18:43 Link
tigershoot wrote:
Just out of interest I timed my work Macbook to export a 32meg DNG file to full size JPEG at the highest quality setting with no sharpening. Two seconds. It's the latest spec but does cost £3.5K. If I fire up my 2011 iMac it takes eight seconds (uses a non SSD drive)
Your times seem way too high to me.
On a separate note Grumpy, do you not shoot as DNG? Are you shooting as PEF and the converting to DNG?

A file shot in RAW and on the card as a PEF file took 3 mins 55 secs for DxO to process.
Output was to a 76MB DNG file
Prob these long times are because I am using an old, cheaper laptop without a decent graphics card.
Its an INTEL HD Graphics 4600with 1GB RAM and, reports says, that it's runnign at full power.
Also listed is an AMD Radeon HD 8690M with 2GB RAM (but says that it's offline)

Maybe I need to simply batchfile the DxO processing overnight and not be so impatient???
Grumpy GrandPa, Recently Retired.
Gotta K-3iii now, had a K-S2, K50 and so suffering from a relapse and so buying digital camera kit.
Previous addiction has resulted in using Zeniths, Yashicamat, Chinons, Minoltas, Samsungs, Fujis, Cosina, Kodak, Lumix, Canon, Nikon and Pentax etc etc - have tried most makes in the past 50 years. Love cameras - love taking photos even more
Lubbyman
Posted 28/08/2022 - 19:50 - Helpful Comment Link
Agree with tigershoot's question - why are you saving PEF files on the card then converting to DNG? Both are RAW files, just different formats. You can tell the camera to save as DNG on the card and work from that. Don't know what it will do for the total processing time, but it removes an unnecessary conversion step from your work flow. FWIW, I used to use PEF but changed to DNG years ago because it's a more widely accepted type of file (and for consistency because my Pentax Q can only produce DNG, not PEF).

Have you thought about changing the software that you use? PureRaw may well be a superb program, but if you can get all you actually need from another program that runs much more quickly on your current computer it would be a lot cheaper than buying another machine.

Steve
Posted 29/08/2022 - 16:08 Link
Right, information received and digested. Thoughts thunked.

I usually use Afinity to edit images, so I will continue to do that.
I take photos as JPG and RAW files.
I will look at pix and only use DxO for RAW images that need the extra work and export the converted files as JPGs.

During the meantime I will continue to go out and take photos and try to lessen the need to progs like DxO to enhance them.

Does that sound like a good plan?
Grumpy GrandPa, Recently Retired.
Gotta K-3iii now, had a K-S2, K50 and so suffering from a relapse and so buying digital camera kit.
Previous addiction has resulted in using Zeniths, Yashicamat, Chinons, Minoltas, Samsungs, Fujis, Cosina, Kodak, Lumix, Canon, Nikon and Pentax etc etc - have tried most makes in the past 50 years. Love cameras - love taking photos even more
Lubbyman
Posted 29/08/2022 - 16:50 - Helpful Comment Link
JPG + RAW saved in camera, Affinity to edit images, only use another program if there's a real need - sounds like a good plan . In fact, it sounds like a very good plan that because that's what I do. And I only use a small fraction of what Affinity can do (I keep promising myself that I'll learn some of its other stuff one day, but one day never seems to come!).

Steve
prsjnb
Posted 30/08/2022 - 15:03 - Helpful Comment Link
GrumpyGrandPa wrote:
PRSJNB: Yes please, I would be interested in the full specs of your current machine.

ASUSTeK TUF Gaming X570-PRO (WI-FI), AMD Ryzen 5 5600X, 2 x 16 GB DDR4-3200, NVIDIA Quadro P2000 5 GB, WD Black SN850 500GB M.2 2280 PCIe 4.0 NVMe SSD (OS and programmes), Kingston KC2500 NVMe PCIe SSD -SKC2500M8/1000G M.2 2280 (documents and swap file; LR 5.0 cache file) and Seagate FireCuda 2TB Solid State Hybrid Drive Performance SSHD – 3.5 Inch SATA 6Gb/s (archiving and long term storage).

The Ryzen CPU is an upper-mid range unit. The Quadro P2000, purchased secondhand, is a professional GPU dating from 2017 which supports 10-bit colour displays. It has the advantage of being a single slot card which draws its power exclusively from the PCI-E socket. The nearest gaming equivalent of similar vintage is the NVIDIA Geforce GTX 1060 6 GB, however this is a dual-slot slot solution that requires additional power connectors as its power draw exceeds the maximum available from the PCI-E socket.

A typical 31 GB RAW from the K-3 Mark III takes 19 sec to process using the Deep Prime option with global sharpening and automatic lens correction selected with the GPU option enabled. Without the GPU option selected, processing takes 46 sec, during which time the CPU is running at 100%. Because of this, multi-tasking whilst the file is being processed in the background is not really a viable option. By contrast, CPU utilisation when the GPU option is selected rarely exceeds 5 - 10%, allowing other programmes to be used without issue.

If you do decide to go ahead with an upgrade, which from what I've read may no longer be the case, from the perspective of DxO Pure Raw it is better to invest more in the GPU than the CPU.

Looking at ebay this w/e revealed that suitably specced refurbished machines with a 1 year guarantee are available within your budget of £500.00.

Best wishes

Jon

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