K20D vs K-X

K-X doesn't have a pentaprism or LCD top panel. Need I say more?

K-x is more for folk like me - just moving into DSLR.

We need something that is friendly and will give us good results while we learn

the K10D is very friendly, what are you implying?

(speaks to camera bag) There there, don't listen to them!!

Not really arguing against your 'baby'

I just happen to think , having read , thought , inwardly digested etc , that the K-x is what I should start out with .

I don't pretend to be a photographer - I'm a beginner , I don't need all the bells and whistles yet .

Mongoose is right though.
Since the K10D does not have those fancy auto modes its clearer to understand what the camera is doing.

If I would set the K-X on portrait mode I would constantly question the camera if it's doing the right thing, although it might be better for someone not knowing a thing about photography.... although I don't think they should buy a DSLR if you are not willing to learn more about it.

ps. Angela, glad to see you think differently but the K-X has a lot more bells and whistles then the "more advance" cameras.

but this is one of the reasons I'm getting the K-x

My P&S was getting me very frustrated - I couldn't get what I wanted .

At the beginning I expect to be using the K-x in a similar fashion - it will allow me to take decent photos while I learn how to take more control .

As I progress I expect to become more confident and start using the bells and whistles - isn't this what education is - start in a simple way and grow ?

Last week you posted the K-m was and abortion and now its a horror.
Viewfinder you must own one to know all this. Please share you concerns with everyone in more detail.

Yes I understand that but it's truly the other way around.

See it as the gearing in a car.

An automatic is a P&S, you put it in drive and you go.
The thing is that it needs all sorts of bells and whistles to select the right gear for you.

half automatic would be the K-X, you need to select the right gear to drive or else you won't go anywhere. Still is an question of only getting the number right and the car does the rest.

Now something like the K10D would be manual.
You need to select the right gear all by yourself and move the gear yourself to.
Far simpler system with less bells and whistles.

I know it isn't the best explanation but I hope it worked

I began my Pentax involvement with a K100D bought at a knockdown price just as it was about to discontinued - from Jessops, back in the days when high street stores still sold Pentax kit.

I loved it, still do.

Last year I made the mistake (entirely down to my own lack of research) of buying the K-m. It's not that it's a bad camera, my good lady wife now uses it, sticks largely to the picture modes for now (though she's experimenting with a bit of exposure compensation) and gets some great pictures. But I hadn't realised how simplified it was compared to the K100d. I found the lack of the top plate info panel and the near complete reliance on multi click menus very restricting. And I realised I took a lot of pictures in quite low light and the lack of in-viewfinder red box focus confirmation was the killer.

I have since bought the K20D, got it for a very good price on Amazon. I have to be honest and say I am still learning how to use it properly, and I'm finding that a bit demanding ... but pleasantly so. The number of customisable options is fascinating and a little daunting. On the other hand you can simply put it in P mode – and on my model at least dial in a bit of positive exposure compensation – and it can almost be used as a point and shoot.

I can't help but think that the K-x carries over some of the things I disliked about the K-m and it does seem pretty expensive.

So I'd go for the K20D, learn how to use the easy modes first and be safe in the knowledge that it is a very good camera that's likely to require, but also repay, some commitment to learn.

Hope it goes well for you.

Patrick

I know what you're getting at

But I don't completely agree with you .

I drive an automatic - because I think it gives me more chance to be in control of the car - after all I have 2 feet and there are 2 pedals

However I can make it do other things if I wish - with it's bells and whistles and still remain in control

I suspect we are going to have to disagree on this one - but it was a fun conversation

Oh no it seems we agree but we misunderstood each other

That was what I was trying to say and that cameras as the K10D lack those bells and whistles and are harder control.

The only thing is that you probably want to learn why those bells and whistles do it in such a way and there for it's better to find it out yourself then let the machine do it.
Altough it's a fine thought that you can fall back to those bells and whistles with the K-X if you don't know it any more, happened to me a lot but I couldn't fall back... well only green mode but that isn't ideal.

one thing some people need to learn about me is my tongue rarely leaves my cheek for any great length of time.

For my part I manage to agree with both of you, the K10D, like most pro and semi-pro models, is fundamentally a more basic camera than the K-X.

I also think the K-X is the right choice for a beginner. It has, on paper at least, enough performance to allow a new photographer room for growth while having enough automatic features to hold their hand while they do so.

I started out with an MZ-7, and learned a great deal by watching what it was up to while it was set to Auto-Picture mode.

Pentax's AP mode is something most of us don't use, but it's actually a very impressive piece of programming. For a long time I used to take multiple shots of things I wanted to come out well, one on AP mode and one or more on settings I thought best. It was a long time before the settings I chose became consistently as good or better than AP mode.

I'm not saying rely on it all the time, or blindly follow it like a delivery driver with sat-nav, but it is a tool like any other and it has its uses.

Technoidiot, the K20D does have a fully automatic mode for you to begin with. You probably would enjoy using the K20D more than the K-X in the long run thanks to it's better viewfinder and greater number of controls. These things are there to make it nicer and easier for you, not more complicated.

Have you considered the K100d I know it's only 6 meg but it's a fine camera to learn with

Second hand prices are good as well

But I would consider the K20 over the K10 any day of the week

In fact I'm in the market for an extra K20

James

Gentlemen,

I thank you for your counsel.

Aren't we lucky that Pentax produce a range of bodies that means we can all find the one that meets our own individual needs