iPad or iPad Which One?
Posted 30/01/2010 - 01:15
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Okay, if you want to do it all again
The netbook thing. You said the iPad should have been a PC-tablet-style device, e.g. a Mac laptop with reversible screen. I said if it ran a full OS it would have terrible battery life. You said they should make it 5mm thicker to fit in a bigger battery. I said why do you want to run a full OS. You said to run full-fledged PC apps even if they run slowly, and Netbooks could get 11 hour battery life so the iPad should be able to achieve that. I'm saying that is crazy talk A decent spec netbook is approximately double the weight of the iPad, it's silly to compare them. In any case I wouldn't want to hold a 3+ lb netbook in one hand while tapping and swiping with the other.
About the numbers. I brought up numbers because you keep insisting that Apple stuff is all hype. 250 million ipods sold. I think that is significant, those buyers can't all be idiots who just want the brand name. Do you think you know better than those 250 million people? I just don't understand how you can be so convinced that Apple somehow 'tricked' all those people just with marketing.
About iPad numbers. What sort of numbers would you like? Obviously there aren't any sales figures...
Uses of the iPad. If you owned an iPhone/iPod Touch or a Kindle you'd know what the uses are. It's a reading device, mainly for books, newspapers, magazines and the web. Lightweight, holdable and usable in one hand. Usable lying on the sofa or in bed. Lying on your back, on your front, on your side. Sitting on the toilet. While eating McDonalds in the car. In a cramped economy plane seat. You leave it lying on your coffee table, or throw it in your briefcase. One month standby time. Instant, and I mean instant, wake-up from sleep.
It's also got some bonuses beyond reading - 10 hours of movie playing (supposedly, we'll see how this one pans out). Email. YouTube. Remotely play your iTunes through your stereo. An automatically synced copy of your iTunes music/movie/podcasts/tv show collections. An automatically synced copy of your calendar. An automatically synced copy of your iPhoto/Aperture library. Both of those can be arranged to selectively sync the stuff you want, e.g. stuff added in the last month, stuff rated over 4 stars, stuff you haven't listened to recently, etc etc. It's got access to 100k+ iPhone apps, including an Office suite, VNC and RDP clients, CRM software, point of sale software, medical diagnostic software, GPS software, GTD software, Google Earth, plus games including top titles by EA etc.
But of course you know all this. That's what I don't understand You obviously know computers. You know all this stuff is available on the iPhone. Why do you object to having access to all of it but on a much more useful bigger screen?
(Phew, this must easily be my longest post ever!)
The netbook thing. You said the iPad should have been a PC-tablet-style device, e.g. a Mac laptop with reversible screen. I said if it ran a full OS it would have terrible battery life. You said they should make it 5mm thicker to fit in a bigger battery. I said why do you want to run a full OS. You said to run full-fledged PC apps even if they run slowly, and Netbooks could get 11 hour battery life so the iPad should be able to achieve that. I'm saying that is crazy talk A decent spec netbook is approximately double the weight of the iPad, it's silly to compare them. In any case I wouldn't want to hold a 3+ lb netbook in one hand while tapping and swiping with the other.
About the numbers. I brought up numbers because you keep insisting that Apple stuff is all hype. 250 million ipods sold. I think that is significant, those buyers can't all be idiots who just want the brand name. Do you think you know better than those 250 million people? I just don't understand how you can be so convinced that Apple somehow 'tricked' all those people just with marketing.
About iPad numbers. What sort of numbers would you like? Obviously there aren't any sales figures...
Uses of the iPad. If you owned an iPhone/iPod Touch or a Kindle you'd know what the uses are. It's a reading device, mainly for books, newspapers, magazines and the web. Lightweight, holdable and usable in one hand. Usable lying on the sofa or in bed. Lying on your back, on your front, on your side. Sitting on the toilet. While eating McDonalds in the car. In a cramped economy plane seat. You leave it lying on your coffee table, or throw it in your briefcase. One month standby time. Instant, and I mean instant, wake-up from sleep.
It's also got some bonuses beyond reading - 10 hours of movie playing (supposedly, we'll see how this one pans out). Email. YouTube. Remotely play your iTunes through your stereo. An automatically synced copy of your iTunes music/movie/podcasts/tv show collections. An automatically synced copy of your calendar. An automatically synced copy of your iPhoto/Aperture library. Both of those can be arranged to selectively sync the stuff you want, e.g. stuff added in the last month, stuff rated over 4 stars, stuff you haven't listened to recently, etc etc. It's got access to 100k+ iPhone apps, including an Office suite, VNC and RDP clients, CRM software, point of sale software, medical diagnostic software, GPS software, GTD software, Google Earth, plus games including top titles by EA etc.
But of course you know all this. That's what I don't understand You obviously know computers. You know all this stuff is available on the iPhone. Why do you object to having access to all of it but on a much more useful bigger screen?
(Phew, this must easily be my longest post ever!)
Tim
AF - Pentax K5, Sigma 10-20/4-5.6, Tamron 17-50/2.8, Sigma 30/1.4, Sigma 70-200/2.8, Tamron 70-300/4-5.6
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Stuff - Metz 58 AF1, Cactus v4, Nikon SB24, Raynox 150, Sigma 1.4x TC, Sigma 2x TC, Kenko 2x macro TC, Redsnapper 283 tripod, iMac 27”, Macbook Pro 17”, iPad, iPhone 3G
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AF - Pentax K5, Sigma 10-20/4-5.6, Tamron 17-50/2.8, Sigma 30/1.4, Sigma 70-200/2.8, Tamron 70-300/4-5.6
MF - Vivitar CF 28/2.8, Tamron AD2 90/2.5, MTO 1000/11
Stuff - Metz 58 AF1, Cactus v4, Nikon SB24, Raynox 150, Sigma 1.4x TC, Sigma 2x TC, Kenko 2x macro TC, Redsnapper 283 tripod, iMac 27”, Macbook Pro 17”, iPad, iPhone 3G
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Feel free to edit any of my posted photos! If I post a photo for critique, I want brutal honesty. If you don't like it, please say so and tell me why!
Posted 30/01/2010 - 03:06
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It mystifies me why people get so het up about technology, but then again a lot of things mystify me. My take on the iPad is this, after watching an Apple promotional video: It looks like it would be a lot more user-friendly for web surfing than the netbook I'm using just now. It seems to be well designed, well engineered and offer a reasonably useful range of "apps", as they insist on calling them. I'm not entirely sold on touch screens after using an Archos MP3/MP4 player for a while but this bigger version might well work.
Would I buy one? Not at the price they're asking for the uses I would put it to. Will others? I'll bet they will, in very large numbers. Several friends of mine use iPhones and they're all delighted with them. Again, I wouldn't pay iPhone prices when my £7.95 Nokia makes perfectly good phone calls, but millions of other people see them as value for money and use their capabilities.
I don't see much point in quibbling over the iPad's lack of capabilities in certain areas. It is what it is and you can either buy one or not. Presumably Apple will respond to customer demand as time goes on if it makes commercial sense for them. I've often felt my washing machine should offer slightly different programmes, but I'm not going to get into a fight with Zanussi about this.
I e-mailing an "early adopter" I know with the address of the Apple video and I'll report back on his views (which are probably shared by many) after I see him in the pub tomorrow.
Apologies for the length of this ramble but my CRT TV packed in today and I'm stuck with an old, small portable -- also CRT, of course. My project for tomorrow is to track down my tame TV repairman, if he's still alive.
Al
Would I buy one? Not at the price they're asking for the uses I would put it to. Will others? I'll bet they will, in very large numbers. Several friends of mine use iPhones and they're all delighted with them. Again, I wouldn't pay iPhone prices when my £7.95 Nokia makes perfectly good phone calls, but millions of other people see them as value for money and use their capabilities.
I don't see much point in quibbling over the iPad's lack of capabilities in certain areas. It is what it is and you can either buy one or not. Presumably Apple will respond to customer demand as time goes on if it makes commercial sense for them. I've often felt my washing machine should offer slightly different programmes, but I'm not going to get into a fight with Zanussi about this.
I e-mailing an "early adopter" I know with the address of the Apple video and I'll report back on his views (which are probably shared by many) after I see him in the pub tomorrow.
Apologies for the length of this ramble but my CRT TV packed in today and I'm stuck with an old, small portable -- also CRT, of course. My project for tomorrow is to track down my tame TV repairman, if he's still alive.
Al
Posted 30/01/2010 - 13:30
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Tim,
It was a long post. As you can see by my signature I use Apple equipment. What disappoints me with this release, is the product offers really nothing for me to want it in any way, shape, or form. I work with my computers, and sure occasionally some internet posts like this forum. I do not play games with computers, nor use them as a second entertainment center.
I also am one that is very fussy with the software I use just like my cameras, and will not have a manufacturer dictate what I can have on my machine that I purchased regarding software. In most cases, the software which is more valuable then the purchase price of the machine are my tools. I also have an iPod Touch, and I can say only one thing, the apps they offer in place of software even a few years down the line are rather limiting.
I really think a lot more thought and creative development could have gone into this product so that it reaches out to more than the kiddie, gamer, smartphone crowd and offers something to help revolutionize computers, rather than to limit them.
Just my two cents (American).
The Photomonk
It was a long post. As you can see by my signature I use Apple equipment. What disappoints me with this release, is the product offers really nothing for me to want it in any way, shape, or form. I work with my computers, and sure occasionally some internet posts like this forum. I do not play games with computers, nor use them as a second entertainment center.
I also am one that is very fussy with the software I use just like my cameras, and will not have a manufacturer dictate what I can have on my machine that I purchased regarding software. In most cases, the software which is more valuable then the purchase price of the machine are my tools. I also have an iPod Touch, and I can say only one thing, the apps they offer in place of software even a few years down the line are rather limiting.
I really think a lot more thought and creative development could have gone into this product so that it reaches out to more than the kiddie, gamer, smartphone crowd and offers something to help revolutionize computers, rather than to limit them.
Just my two cents (American).
The Photomonk
Posted 30/01/2010 - 13:43
Link
I suspect the iPad is not aimed at the sectors we belong to, but perhaps is looking to appeal to new markets. While the existing computer users may well be right that this particular product does not appeal, there will be new, heavily researched, markets just waiting for this exciting new technology.
It's not necessary that we should like every product that a company produces. After all, we're not annoyed because Pentax produces a 300mm lens and we don't want one are we? :
It's not necessary that we should like every product that a company produces. After all, we're not annoyed because Pentax produces a 300mm lens and we don't want one are we? :
Best regards, John
Posted 30/01/2010 - 13:50
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johnriley wrote:
After all, we're not annoyed because Pentax produces a 300mm lens and we don't want one are we? :
John,After all, we're not annoyed because Pentax produces a 300mm lens and we don't want one are we? :
I would not know about that since I do not use or own any Pentax equipment and none is anticipated in the foreseeable future.
The Photomonk
Posted 30/01/2010 - 13:52
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Quote:
I would not know about that since I do not use or own any Pentax equipment and none is anticipated in the foreseeable future.
As most will realise, it was an example, so feel free to substitute any item you like in the sentence!
I would not know about that since I do not use or own any Pentax equipment and none is anticipated in the foreseeable future.
Best regards, John
Posted 30/01/2010 - 13:55
Link
John,
I know just having a little fun while having my morning coffee.
The Photomonk
I know just having a little fun while having my morning coffee.
The Photomonk
Posted 30/01/2010 - 13:56
Link
If you were drinking the coffee I make, something to distract you from it would indeed be an essential.....I mix better developer.
Best regards, John
Posted 30/01/2010 - 14:00
Link
Photomonk wrote:
Tim,
It was a long post. As you can see by my signature I use Apple equipment. What disappoints me with this release, is the product offers really nothing for me to want it in any way, shape, or form. I work with my computers, and sure occasionally some internet posts like this forum. I do not play games with computers, nor use them as a second entertainment center.
I also am one that is very fussy with the software I use just like my cameras, and will not have a manufacturer dictate what I can have on my machine that I purchased regarding software. In most cases, the software which is more valuable then the purchase price of the machine are my tools. I also have an iPod Touch, and I can say only one thing, the apps they offer in place of software even a few years down the line are rather limiting.
I really think a lot more thought and creative development could have gone into this product so that it reaches out to more than the kiddie, gamer, smartphone crowd and offers something to help revolutionize computers, rather than to limit them.
Just my two cents (American).
The Photomonk
Now don't take this the wrong way, but do you honestly think any company expects to please all people with everything they make?Tim,
It was a long post. As you can see by my signature I use Apple equipment. What disappoints me with this release, is the product offers really nothing for me to want it in any way, shape, or form. I work with my computers, and sure occasionally some internet posts like this forum. I do not play games with computers, nor use them as a second entertainment center.
I also am one that is very fussy with the software I use just like my cameras, and will not have a manufacturer dictate what I can have on my machine that I purchased regarding software. In most cases, the software which is more valuable then the purchase price of the machine are my tools. I also have an iPod Touch, and I can say only one thing, the apps they offer in place of software even a few years down the line are rather limiting.
I really think a lot more thought and creative development could have gone into this product so that it reaches out to more than the kiddie, gamer, smartphone crowd and offers something to help revolutionize computers, rather than to limit them.
Just my two cents (American).
The Photomonk
Any attempt to do that would be commercial suicide as you would end up with products that don't really suit anyones specific needs.
Apple user or not, I honestly don't think Apple will care if you don't want to buy an iPad, as they know millions of others will.
It was the same with the iPhone, rubbished by many people before release but now one of (if not the) most influential mobile phone ever.
If you can't say something nice about Pentax, you won't say anything at all.
Apparently.
Apparently.
Posted 30/01/2010 - 14:01
Link
Or in my case, the coffee can taste like good developer especially if the night was not as restful as it could have been. Better that we are photographers than chefs.
The Photomonk
The Photomonk
Posted 30/01/2010 - 14:10
Link
Tim now you're bringing new facts, I didn't thought about the weight thing but if you don't have a reversible screen and keyboard then you can bring the weight down quite a bit it would still be heavier.
Still a net book is more functional then a iPad, certainly for photographers.
You can run lightroom on your device to order your RAW photos for example, for now such a thing isn't insight for the iPad.
No it's a number of things of course the numbers they sell but the hype did a lot for it.
Like said the Cowon S9 has better audio quality then the iPod so if it's all about music why wouldn't the Cowon S9 sell more?
Only with the interface you could say the iPod is better but with the rest...
And if we talk about numbers sold then Pentax must also be quite bad photo brand
I would like to see numbers that show that it is better then those UMPC and other devices that looks like the iPad, like you said the UMPC hardly sold an unit so why would the iPad be different... because it's from Apple of course, why else?
The syncing stuff isn't so special, your iPhone probably has it as well and I know my HTC does sync as well as does my browers and since the browers has the sync online it even sync with PC on schools
And if we talk about synce then google android must be the king, it also put his data online so you can pick up any android phone and sync.
Now I rather have an iPhone that fits in my pockets
If it just had a tweaked down OSX that support OSX programs then I really would have considered one since like you said it's easy to take with you but now is use is to limiting.
Photomonk put this in words better then me
Still a net book is more functional then a iPad, certainly for photographers.
You can run lightroom on your device to order your RAW photos for example, for now such a thing isn't insight for the iPad.
No it's a number of things of course the numbers they sell but the hype did a lot for it.
Like said the Cowon S9 has better audio quality then the iPod so if it's all about music why wouldn't the Cowon S9 sell more?
Only with the interface you could say the iPod is better but with the rest...
And if we talk about numbers sold then Pentax must also be quite bad photo brand
I would like to see numbers that show that it is better then those UMPC and other devices that looks like the iPad, like you said the UMPC hardly sold an unit so why would the iPad be different... because it's from Apple of course, why else?
The syncing stuff isn't so special, your iPhone probably has it as well and I know my HTC does sync as well as does my browers and since the browers has the sync online it even sync with PC on schools
And if we talk about synce then google android must be the king, it also put his data online so you can pick up any android phone and sync.
thoughton wrote:
But of course you know all this. That's what I don't understand You obviously know computers. You know all this stuff is available on the iPhone. Why do you object to having access to all of it but on a much more useful bigger screen?
Because that's all it really has over the iPhone, a bigger screen, it could be so much more.But of course you know all this. That's what I don't understand You obviously know computers. You know all this stuff is available on the iPhone. Why do you object to having access to all of it but on a much more useful bigger screen?
Now I rather have an iPhone that fits in my pockets
If it just had a tweaked down OSX that support OSX programs then I really would have considered one since like you said it's easy to take with you but now is use is to limiting.
Photomonk put this in words better then me
Stefan
K10D, K5
DA* 16-50, DA* 50-135, D-FA 100 Macro, DA 40 Ltd, DA 18-55
AF-540FGZ
K10D, K5
DA* 16-50, DA* 50-135, D-FA 100 Macro, DA 40 Ltd, DA 18-55
AF-540FGZ
Posted 30/01/2010 - 14:10
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robbie_d
I have to admit that as a MacHead I'm also puzzled by the iPad . I don't know what market it's aimed at .
If I'm away from home with camera [ even before I got my K-x ] I need to download photos - so need a computer with me - I can't [ as far as I know ] download them to the iPad.
It doesn't have any protection for its screen - so you are going to have to buy a case for it .
It's not pocket sized - so kids taking their toys with them [ and they do ] are going to have to take a bag .
I'm not really looking at what you can / can't run on it - I'm looking at sheer practicalities .
I just don't know what market it's aimed for - it's not a phone , it's not a computer , it's slightly more than a giant iTouch - whatever is it ?
I have to admit that as a MacHead I'm also puzzled by the iPad . I don't know what market it's aimed at .
If I'm away from home with camera [ even before I got my K-x ] I need to download photos - so need a computer with me - I can't [ as far as I know ] download them to the iPad.
It doesn't have any protection for its screen - so you are going to have to buy a case for it .
It's not pocket sized - so kids taking their toys with them [ and they do ] are going to have to take a bag .
I'm not really looking at what you can / can't run on it - I'm looking at sheer practicalities .
I just don't know what market it's aimed for - it's not a phone , it's not a computer , it's slightly more than a giant iTouch - whatever is it ?
let the education continue
proud owner of a couple of cameras and a few bits and bobs
proud owner of a couple of cameras and a few bits and bobs
Posted 30/01/2010 - 14:23
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robbie_d wrote:
Apple user or not, I honestly don't think Apple will care if you don't want to buy an iPad, as they know millions of others will.
Here is where I disagree. Apple has heavily relied on its customers to be their front line "evangelists" more so than any other technology company in promoting their products. Unhappy customers or ones that have no use for their new products, does have an effect. Within the past year Apple felt that in a way, when they tried to redesign the MacBook removing certain features, i.e. the firewire port. The backlash was immediate and MacBook sales plummeted and were not taken up by the more expensive MacBook Pro which had the features, and Apple hastily redesigned the MacBook to reincorporate the features back in.Apple user or not, I honestly don't think Apple will care if you don't want to buy an iPad, as they know millions of others will.
So if their customers are not happy, the effect will be evident when it comes down to what any company values most, their bottom line profit.
The Photomonk
Posted 30/01/2010 - 14:24
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johnriley wrote:
I suspect the iPad is not aimed at the sectors we belong to, but perhaps is looking to appeal to new markets. While the existing computer users may well be right that this particular product does not appeal, there will be new, heavily researched, markets just waiting for this exciting new technology.
It's not necessary that we should like every product that a company produces. After all, we're not annoyed because Pentax produces a 300mm lens and we don't want one are we? :
My personal view is that Apple make electronic devices for newbies and technophobes (no disrespect intended :wink.I suspect the iPad is not aimed at the sectors we belong to, but perhaps is looking to appeal to new markets. While the existing computer users may well be right that this particular product does not appeal, there will be new, heavily researched, markets just waiting for this exciting new technology.
It's not necessary that we should like every product that a company produces. After all, we're not annoyed because Pentax produces a 300mm lens and we don't want one are we? :
They have exploited this market very successfully over many years and have forced others to follow suit, I can remember when Apple had a WYSIWYG interface when others just had a basic DOS prompt (C:>)!
A similar photographic analogy would be simple P&S cameras with picture modes. The use of icon based picture modes has now spread into higher end cameras including DSLR's.
Personally, like others here in the forum, I prefer full manual controls, but we must remember that we are in the minority.
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10412 posts
18 years
Dordrecht,
the Netherlands
This for example, could you please show me where I said that?
For example your saying that you don't like the iPad because a Netbook has better battery life.
Some people are never satisfied Why would you want to run full Mac OS X on it (don't forget there is no mouse and no trackpad). A full OS will also dramatically reduce the current battery life.
Those netbooks aren't that much bigger and they can run almost 11hours with one charge and they do run a full OS on it, so it can be done.
You want it to be more similar to all of these things that already exist to serve different purposes. No offence intended, but that simply isn't what this device is about.
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