iPad or iPad Which One?

Tim you're wrong though, I like apple in some ways and they make good products and software I just don't like how they try to control everything what you can do with the product you buy from them.
If I want to use software on a mac which they don't think is a good idea then that's my concern right not theirs and that you need to use itunes with your ipod is enough for me not to buy one.
I'm thinking of making a dual system here and install mac on a pc but my current hardware isn't perfect, i'm using amd a lot now but would want to switch to intel soon so will wait for that.

I also never argued about the numbers or the quality of their products, I just argued that the ipad might not be such a good product and if apple does sell a lot then it would be just because of the brand name.
You've not giving me any reason why it's not that besides evading it and say how many ipods and iphones they have not sold and saying that I don't like apple.

the water by the wine thing about the battery is this link

Also don't give me figures how many they have sold or not, it does not say a thing about how good a product is just how good the marketing is and how well a product fill someone's needs.
If all you need is a good product then why aren't there more Pentax
being sold?
And the Cowon S9 gives you better audio quality then any ipod so why aren't there sold more of them?

Now give me a some facts that makes it clear that the ipad is better then most netbooks.

Interesting, that's what people say about Microsoft and use as an argument to fragment the business. Apple is tiny by comparison - what is it they stop you from doing?

Indeed and that's why microsoft now needs to have a OS only version of windows here in the EU.
The thing is that every app for the iphone needs to go through apple for testing and they can deny that app to be used on their product that's why some people jailbreak their iphone so that they can use 3rd party software and have full control over the product... now it seems you buy the rights to use an apple product instead of owning one and I don't like that concept.

Erm... use any application on the iPhone which hasn't been pre-approved by Apple?

With respect, I think we should like that comcept because it means security is not compromised on our iPhones. Where people have used non-approved apps and cracked their phones to do so there have been security breaches already.

Sometimes there is a good reason for things to be the way they are.

by that logic BMW needs to be shut down 'cause you can't put ford engine modules into them and vice versa...

my dvd player should be banned because sony playstation games won't run on it, same with the wii...

what made microsoft products so unreliable and bug ridden was the attempt to accommodate so many different components and compnies and protect things from being copied that they built a luxury liner out of nothing but patches, and it ain't watertight.

Indeed John that's one of the merits of using such system but it's also one that restricts the use of the product.

But I do think you agree that you should decide what software you would want to use on your product and not the the brand of the product decide for you what you can use.

I remember the discussing here about the passport.
Most Ukers had the view that the police should not be allowed to ask for your ID if you did nothing wrong and most other Euers had the view the could ask since if you did nothing wrong what's there to fear.

Basicly you don't trust the police/government and now I don't trust
company or at least I don't think they should have the power to decide for you what you can and can not do with their device.

Wait there is a difference here.
You are allowed to do with your BMW what you want within the law of course, if you tune your car and put a Ford engine in your BMW they won't stop you.

And a DVD player is not a gaming console so you can't compare them.
It's something else if there is a DVD player that only plays Disney DVD for example but there isn't.

Now about the gaming consoles, they don't run on each other discs because the way the code is written is different all gaming system are different.
I don't think there is anything against making a multi platform disk that can run on all the gaming system.

You've disks with DVD on one side and Blu-ray on the other, I don't think they can stop you from putting on the DVD side an XBOX game and the Blu-ray side a PS3 game but why would you want to have two versions of the same game?

interesting discussion.

There is nothing in this house from Apple.


There will not be while I have a choice.

iTunes stinks. DRM stinks. Apple *pushed* DRM. Without them, it would never have happened. Then they said "no" and the record companies said "well, OK, then".

Mac users are dedicated to their hardware in my experience. Yes, it's nice. It's also massively overpriced IMO. Yes, they've done great things for UIs and introduced a whole new ball game with the ipod.

I want cheap, I want good, and I want open. I will not get it with a Mac.

Companies approving software to go out (did you read the skobbler story? Go do so, it's entertaining.) is not acceptable. Skobbler basically hit #1 spot and was told to pull the app or their licence to use maps would be revoked. And the app would be removed from teh appstore. Do you think anyone in their right mind would use OpenStreetMap? Even my street isn't on it and I live in the middle of a 100,000 person town!

I see apple's store as another case of dumbing-down and the phone OS should support enough security natively to not need approvals. And if you don't trust it, you shouldn't be installing it.

Anyway, you have a backup, don't you?

Bret

Welcome to our slightly heated discussion Bret

I think DRM stinks too. However if Apple hadn't accepted DRM they would never have got the labels on board, and iTunes would be solely the province of unsigned bands and indy labels. They did the smart thing, the forward-thinking thing, and accepted DRM. Then they proved to the big labels that digital downloads could work, and make the labels a huge pile of money. From there it was a small step to getting the labels to agree to non-DRMed songs with a small price premium.

I can't find anything about Skobbler being pulled, is the story available in English anywhere? I don't see how Apple can revoke the license to maps, wouldn't that be Google's doing? Google the mighty champions of OSS?

I'll agree with you that there have been instances where developers have had their apps pulled without any warning for crappy reasons. It's not good, but unfortunately that's the price of admission to the App Store. Thankfully it seems to be quite rare.

I'll also agree that iTunes is a dumbed-down sandbox approach, but unfortunately there are a lot of less capable users out there, and if you're going have tens of millions of IT-illiterate users buying songs and apps on iTunes, and then syncing them to their phones and ipods, it has to be pretty basic.

(Stefan, I'll respond to you soon, my takeaway has just arrived )

the skobbler story (because there's no way I'm going to sleep when I should be)....


Skobbler releases an app in the German app store. It's cheap.
They hit #1.
Day afterwards, they post this:

I'll translate (this is not what google translate would give, but i'm a human and I understand context better)
Not google maps. Google nav is only in the states, Nokia has an opportunity they need to grasp with both hands to shift the market to their control in Europe. Ovi maps actually works really well. Including turn-by-turn.

Anyway, skobbler have been forced into OSM.

Bit more info:

[Quote]particularly Navigon tried to pressure Apple into removing the app from the store. This is particularly interesting as the company that became skobbler was given up by Navigon in 2008 and sold to ex-employees.
[/quote]Bret

I still don't understand. Is Skobbler in the App Store now? Was it Nokia who threatened to pull their license? Who were the phone calls from?

Navigon provided maps and had their own app - "raise your price to ours or we will tell Apple to remove your app as you are infringing your licence agreements".

Skobbler's still there IIRC, but heise tested it and said "pants" and also the map quality is about to go downhill big-time.

The announcement last week that turn-by-turn nav will be free on some Nokia smartphones is a declaration of war against the iphone. Nokia will try to win with maps and "comes with music", where apple will try to stay fashionable.

Bret

Stefan,

I'm not really sure how to respond to your last post. I feel that you've been quite argumentative about this so I've responded in a similar fashion. (I don't mind an argument as long as it remains civil!) But you sound a bit annoyed now.

All I can say is that you have been quite dismissive of the iPad, and Apple products in general. You've tried to explain why you feel this way but I simply don't understand your reasoning. Your reasons just don't make sense to me.

For example your saying that you don't like the iPad because a Netbook has better battery life. Then saying why doesn't it have handwriting recognition when smartphones and PCs have handwriting recognition. Then talking about how it should be more like a PC tablet (i.e. a modified Mac laptop with reversible screen). You want it to be more similar to all of these things that already exist to serve different purposes. No offence intended, but that simply isn't what this device is about.

Cheers, and don't take this the wrong way!

Okay, I sort of understand now (except who were the phone calls from). Although to be honest I don't see what the problem is. If Skobbler licensed the maps from Navigon under those terms then they should comply with them. if the licence doesn't say they must price match Navigon then they should ignore Navigon. If Apple pull the app based on misrepresentation by Navigon then Skobbler should take legal action. How is any of this Apple's fault?