Grumpiness
Posted 22/07/2009 - 22:01
Link
To paraphrase Oscar Wilde, it seems to me you would need to have a heart of stone to read George's original post without shedding a tear of laughter at the supposed injustices suffered.
But rather than take issue with his hypocrisy or petty prejudices, I would instead like to outline my anthropological theory regarding the underlying forum dynamic at work.
Without having been fully privy to of George's 5,000 odd posts over not much more than 5 years - itself an extremely prolific achievement raising legitimate questions as to quality control - it is clear that he is a forum "oldie" to use Malo's no doubt apt description.
Malo is himself an oldie, and so are most of the others that have weighed into this thread in favour of the original sentiments expressed; just do a members search and you will see these names at the top of the posting leaderboard and the clustering of joined dates around 2006.
However, although these people may be oldies they are not the progenitors of the forum; now try a search of members by joined date and a whole plethora of names crop up that I have never seen or heard from. This is unsurprising as the original members generally speaking were unable to generate much by way of posting, allowing the new oldies a clean canvas on which to make their mark.
In my view this backdrop creates the real possibility that the term oldies may in fact be a subliminal slip of the tongue that actually implies the term elders, specifically tribal elders, because is clear that the dynamic here is very much that of a tribe.
Seen in this way the otherwise meaningless zealotry regarding the use of proscribed language instead assumes highly ritualistic significance transformed as it is into magical incantation warding off the possibility of change in general, which is invariably deemed harmful to tribal society.
Of course going all the way back to Hearclitus man has been fearful of the effects of change on society - tribal or otherwise - and whether a metaphor for this is sought in the supposed decline in standards of language or that of the chief object of veneration Pentax, it impels an urge to arrest and if possible reverse it. A tall order indeed!
I believe the tribal analogy may be extended in many other interesting and often amusing ways but to stay on topic I will mention only one final thing; although George is clever at wrapping this up in a flowery albeit somewhat pompous literary style he has a tendency to be rude and abusive (I had thought he temporarily made an effort to curb this but he appears to be back to his old ways again).
However, it is a tribal taboo to point this out, and if anybody should ever accuse him of such a thing the tribe must immediately close ranks and shout down any offenders. For it is in the nature of the tribe to tolerate any and all behaviour, even severe literary deficiencies, if the transgressor pays due homage and reverence to relevant customs and ritual.
But rather than take issue with his hypocrisy or petty prejudices, I would instead like to outline my anthropological theory regarding the underlying forum dynamic at work.
Without having been fully privy to of George's 5,000 odd posts over not much more than 5 years - itself an extremely prolific achievement raising legitimate questions as to quality control - it is clear that he is a forum "oldie" to use Malo's no doubt apt description.
Malo is himself an oldie, and so are most of the others that have weighed into this thread in favour of the original sentiments expressed; just do a members search and you will see these names at the top of the posting leaderboard and the clustering of joined dates around 2006.
However, although these people may be oldies they are not the progenitors of the forum; now try a search of members by joined date and a whole plethora of names crop up that I have never seen or heard from. This is unsurprising as the original members generally speaking were unable to generate much by way of posting, allowing the new oldies a clean canvas on which to make their mark.
In my view this backdrop creates the real possibility that the term oldies may in fact be a subliminal slip of the tongue that actually implies the term elders, specifically tribal elders, because is clear that the dynamic here is very much that of a tribe.
Seen in this way the otherwise meaningless zealotry regarding the use of proscribed language instead assumes highly ritualistic significance transformed as it is into magical incantation warding off the possibility of change in general, which is invariably deemed harmful to tribal society.
Of course going all the way back to Hearclitus man has been fearful of the effects of change on society - tribal or otherwise - and whether a metaphor for this is sought in the supposed decline in standards of language or that of the chief object of veneration Pentax, it impels an urge to arrest and if possible reverse it. A tall order indeed!
I believe the tribal analogy may be extended in many other interesting and often amusing ways but to stay on topic I will mention only one final thing; although George is clever at wrapping this up in a flowery albeit somewhat pompous literary style he has a tendency to be rude and abusive (I had thought he temporarily made an effort to curb this but he appears to be back to his old ways again).
However, it is a tribal taboo to point this out, and if anybody should ever accuse him of such a thing the tribe must immediately close ranks and shout down any offenders. For it is in the nature of the tribe to tolerate any and all behaviour, even severe literary deficiencies, if the transgressor pays due homage and reverence to relevant customs and ritual.
Posted 22/07/2009 - 22:04
Link
Just a quick note about proper use of language: 50 years ago the discussion would have been exactly the same.
Languages are not static things and cannot be. It's interesting that most people that actually studies language (linguists) are way more relaxed about these changes. So come on: relax a bit! Don't get me wrong: In professional communication it's highly recommended to write as correct as possible - or at least know what you are doing when breaking the norms.
I do encourage everybody to think twice about if what they write would possible cause confusion to others. In communication I think it's a good idea to write/speak from the premise that YOU are responsible that the receiver understands.
Hey, I'm Danish and I'm not going to spend hours consulting books to check if everything is correct in the above text (I'm sure it is not!) Btw. a common mistake in Denmark is related to the use of apostrophe. Danes tend to use the apostrophe of English (the butcher's wife).
Languages are not static things and cannot be. It's interesting that most people that actually studies language (linguists) are way more relaxed about these changes. So come on: relax a bit! Don't get me wrong: In professional communication it's highly recommended to write as correct as possible - or at least know what you are doing when breaking the norms.
I do encourage everybody to think twice about if what they write would possible cause confusion to others. In communication I think it's a good idea to write/speak from the premise that YOU are responsible that the receiver understands.
Hey, I'm Danish and I'm not going to spend hours consulting books to check if everything is correct in the above text (I'm sure it is not!) Btw. a common mistake in Denmark is related to the use of apostrophe. Danes tend to use the apostrophe of English (the butcher's wife).
Hi. My name is Joel and I'm a travelholic.
Stolen kit: Pentax K7 #3428965 and Pentax FA 43mm #0028350
Stolen kit: Pentax K7 #3428965 and Pentax FA 43mm #0028350
Posted 22/07/2009 - 22:09
Link
Cloudhunter:
The forum is not John's forum It belongs to the publishers of the Pentax User Magazine. John is a moderator on this forum, and does an excellent job.
I am nobody's crony. I just do not like unfairness or injustice and you sir are not being fair or just in the way you behave on this forum.
I realise, as does George, there are many people who for whom English is a second language (one of whom is George's so called crony Malo btw) and I realise that many people have a poor grasp of their mother tongue. never the less these people are capable of writing perfectly understandable posts and of not insulting various members along the way.
How dare you call anyone on this forum filth! If this was my forum you would be banned for that.
The forum is not John's forum It belongs to the publishers of the Pentax User Magazine. John is a moderator on this forum, and does an excellent job.
I am nobody's crony. I just do not like unfairness or injustice and you sir are not being fair or just in the way you behave on this forum.
I realise, as does George, there are many people who for whom English is a second language (one of whom is George's so called crony Malo btw) and I realise that many people have a poor grasp of their mother tongue. never the less these people are capable of writing perfectly understandable posts and of not insulting various members along the way.
How dare you call anyone on this forum filth! If this was my forum you would be banned for that.
Posted 22/07/2009 - 22:16
Link
Shaky wrote:
To paraphrase Oscar Wilde, it seems to me you would need to have a heart of stone to read George's original post without shedding a tear of laughter at the supposed injustices suffered.
But rather than take issue with his hypocrisy or petty prejudices, I would instead like to outline my anthropological theory regarding the underlying forum dynamic at work.
Without having been fully privy to of George's 5,000 odd posts over not much more than 5 years - itself an extremely prolific achievement raising legitimate questions as to quality control - it is clear that he is a forum "oldie" to use Malo's no doubt apt description.
Malo is himself an oldie, and so are most of the others that have weighed into this thread in favour of the original sentiments expressed; just do a members search and you will see these names at the top of the posting leaderboard and the clustering of joined dates around 2006.
However, although these people may be oldies they are not the progenitors of the forum; now try a search of members by joined date and a whole plethora of names crop up that I have never seen or heard from. This is unsurprising as the original members generally speaking were unable to generate much by way of posting, allowing the new oldies a clean canvas on which to make their mark.
In my view this backdrop creates the real possibility that the term oldies may in fact be a subliminal slip of the tongue that actually implies the term elders, specifically tribal elders, because is clear that the dynamic here is very much that of a tribe.
Seen in this way the otherwise meaningless zealotry regarding the use of proscribed language instead assumes highly ritualistic significance transformed as it is into magical incantation warding off the possibility of change in general, which is invariably deemed harmful to tribal society.
Of course going all the way back to Hearclitus man has been fearful of the effects of change on society - tribal or otherwise - and whether a metaphor for this is sought in the supposed decline in standards of language or that of the chief object of veneration Pentax, it impels an urge to arrest and if possible reverse it. A tall order indeed!
I believe the tribal analogy may be extended in many other interesting and often amusing ways but to stay on topic I will mention only one final thing; although George is clever at wrapping this up in a flowery albeit somewhat pompous literary style he has a tendency to be rude and abusive (I had thought he temporarily made an effort to curb this but he appears to be back to his old ways again).
However, it is a tribal taboo to point this out, and if anybody should ever accuse him of such a thing the tribe must immediately close ranks and shout down any offenders. For it is in the nature of the tribe to tolerate any and all behaviour, even severe literary deficiencies, if the transgressor pays due homage and reverence to relevant customs and ritual.
To paraphrase Oscar Wilde, it seems to me you would need to have a heart of stone to read George's original post without shedding a tear of laughter at the supposed injustices suffered.
But rather than take issue with his hypocrisy or petty prejudices, I would instead like to outline my anthropological theory regarding the underlying forum dynamic at work.
Without having been fully privy to of George's 5,000 odd posts over not much more than 5 years - itself an extremely prolific achievement raising legitimate questions as to quality control - it is clear that he is a forum "oldie" to use Malo's no doubt apt description.
Malo is himself an oldie, and so are most of the others that have weighed into this thread in favour of the original sentiments expressed; just do a members search and you will see these names at the top of the posting leaderboard and the clustering of joined dates around 2006.
However, although these people may be oldies they are not the progenitors of the forum; now try a search of members by joined date and a whole plethora of names crop up that I have never seen or heard from. This is unsurprising as the original members generally speaking were unable to generate much by way of posting, allowing the new oldies a clean canvas on which to make their mark.
In my view this backdrop creates the real possibility that the term oldies may in fact be a subliminal slip of the tongue that actually implies the term elders, specifically tribal elders, because is clear that the dynamic here is very much that of a tribe.
Seen in this way the otherwise meaningless zealotry regarding the use of proscribed language instead assumes highly ritualistic significance transformed as it is into magical incantation warding off the possibility of change in general, which is invariably deemed harmful to tribal society.
Of course going all the way back to Hearclitus man has been fearful of the effects of change on society - tribal or otherwise - and whether a metaphor for this is sought in the supposed decline in standards of language or that of the chief object of veneration Pentax, it impels an urge to arrest and if possible reverse it. A tall order indeed!
I believe the tribal analogy may be extended in many other interesting and often amusing ways but to stay on topic I will mention only one final thing; although George is clever at wrapping this up in a flowery albeit somewhat pompous literary style he has a tendency to be rude and abusive (I had thought he temporarily made an effort to curb this but he appears to be back to his old ways again).
However, it is a tribal taboo to point this out, and if anybody should ever accuse him of such a thing the tribe must immediately close ranks and shout down any offenders. For it is in the nature of the tribe to tolerate any and all behaviour, even severe literary deficiencies, if the transgressor pays due homage and reverence to relevant customs and ritual.
Wow.
lotz of words...
can be summarized by two letters... a B and an S.
If this were a tribe... I'd have to ask "When was the last time we tossed one into the volcano to please the fire-Gods?"
seriously. How would you feel if everytime you opened a thread, an honest dialogue got sidelined by stuff like: (see above)?
George isn't demanding perfection... just a little effort... no need to villify him.
Tribe or no tribe, a little respect for the elders is not a bad thing...
Fired many shots. Didn't kill anything.
Posted 22/07/2009 - 22:19
Link
Shaky wrote:
I will mention only one final thing; although George is clever at wrapping this up in a flowery albeit somewhat pompous literary style he has a tendency to be rude and abusive (I had thought he temporarily made an effort to curb this but he appears to be back to his old ways again).
However, it is a tribal taboo to point this out, and if anybody should ever accuse him of such a thing the tribe must immediately close ranks and shout down any offenders. For it is in the nature of the tribe to tolerate any and all behaviour, even severe literary deficiencies, if the transgressor pays due homage and reverence to relevant customs and ritual.
How true this bit is...
I will mention only one final thing; although George is clever at wrapping this up in a flowery albeit somewhat pompous literary style he has a tendency to be rude and abusive (I had thought he temporarily made an effort to curb this but he appears to be back to his old ways again).
However, it is a tribal taboo to point this out, and if anybody should ever accuse him of such a thing the tribe must immediately close ranks and shout down any offenders. For it is in the nature of the tribe to tolerate any and all behaviour, even severe literary deficiencies, if the transgressor pays due homage and reverence to relevant customs and ritual.
Tel,
Posted 22/07/2009 - 22:51
Link
Joe S wrote:
Just a quick note about proper use of language: 50 years ago the discussion would have been exactly the same.
Indeed. And fifty years ago the standard of English was immeasurably higher than it is now. (I know - I was there!)Just a quick note about proper use of language: 50 years ago the discussion would have been exactly the same.
But as others have pointed out, I am not asking for perfection, just a little more care. It's the sloppiness that I object to, and it goes hand in hand with a feeling that it's better that a hundred readers should have to struggle with a post than that the writer should take five seconds to "post-process" the thoughts he want to share.
And welcome back to our resident troll. Sometimes he's a business student, with textbook views on marketing; today he's an anthropologist. One day he might transmogrify into a real person, with views of his own, but don't hold your breath.
G
Keywords: Charming, polite, and generally agreeable.
Posted 22/07/2009 - 23:04
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I haven't bothered to read this whole thread since page 5. However, the one thing in this which worries me is the couple of new members who now feel put off from posting.
I'm not exactly a long standing member on here, but I've been made to feel more than welcome. I ask questions which would probably be considered less than basic by these guys and they answer me patiently. I post pictures which are way below their standards most of the time and I receive constructive and honest criticism.
So, to any newer members who may read this and think, " This isn't the place for me". I'd say, it is the place for you if you want genuine advice on photography and are willing to accept criticism and learn by it.
As for the standard of English, George. You want to see the car club forum I'm involved with
I'm not exactly a long standing member on here, but I've been made to feel more than welcome. I ask questions which would probably be considered less than basic by these guys and they answer me patiently. I post pictures which are way below their standards most of the time and I receive constructive and honest criticism.
So, to any newer members who may read this and think, " This isn't the place for me". I'd say, it is the place for you if you want genuine advice on photography and are willing to accept criticism and learn by it.
As for the standard of English, George. You want to see the car club forum I'm involved with
Getting there! Thanks to you guys
Pentax K3ii, Pentax K10d, Kit lens ( 18-55mm ), 50mm f1.7 lens, Tamron 70-300mm lens, Prinzflex 70-162 manual lens, Various old flashes.
Pentax K3ii, Pentax K10d, Kit lens ( 18-55mm ), 50mm f1.7 lens, Tamron 70-300mm lens, Prinzflex 70-162 manual lens, Various old flashes.
Posted 22/07/2009 - 23:04
Link
George Lazarette wrote:
But as others have pointed out, I am not asking for perfection, just a little more care. It's the sloppiness that I object to, and it goes hand in hand with a feeling that it's better that a hundred readers should have to struggle with a post than that the writer should take five seconds to "post-process" the thoughts he want to share.
And welcome back to our resident troll. Sometimes he's a business student, with textbook views on marketing; today he's an anthropologist. One day he might transmogrify into a real person, with views of his own, but don't hold your breath.
G
You know George, back when I work in Mental Healthcare... I had a Dr (psychiatrist) ask a PsycheNurse "Why is this guy being asked his opinion?" while pointing at me (A psychiatric nursing assistant)...Joe S wrote:
Just a quick note about proper use of language: 50 years ago the discussion would have been exactly the same.
Indeed. And fifty years ago the standard of English was immeasurably higher than it is now. (I know - I was there!)Just a quick note about proper use of language: 50 years ago the discussion would have been exactly the same.
But as others have pointed out, I am not asking for perfection, just a little more care. It's the sloppiness that I object to, and it goes hand in hand with a feeling that it's better that a hundred readers should have to struggle with a post than that the writer should take five seconds to "post-process" the thoughts he want to share.
And welcome back to our resident troll. Sometimes he's a business student, with textbook views on marketing; today he's an anthropologist. One day he might transmogrify into a real person, with views of his own, but don't hold your breath.
G
The Nurse looked back at him and said..."He's right isn't he? you wanna know something scary? ask him how he got the right answer... and be prepared for the most bizzaare, convoluted, unexpected story about a personal observation that leads this Learning disability afflicted, gr 8 educated, goof-ball personality to come up with a better batting average than a lot of university educated morons I have to work with... there are somethings, like life experience, they don't teach in books. I trust him is the short answer."
some people don't recognize genius when they see it, give them time....
Fired many shots. Didn't kill anything.
Posted 22/07/2009 - 23:25
Link
Well I've just arrived back to find all this, and as most of you are not aware of what has happened behind the scenes in the past few days with a couple of members, apparently from the same group, I'll just say that some of the comments in this thread are somewhat disingenuous to say the least.
Cloudhunter is obviously way out of line, intentionally so it seems, so unfortunately we will not be seeing him here again.
Some of you will be surprised to learn that you are my "cronies" just as much as I am.
It's a pity that there are still some here who seem to want to cause trouble, they know who they are, and I will now ask them for a final time to stop. Trolling will not be allowed.
Cloudhunter is obviously way out of line, intentionally so it seems, so unfortunately we will not be seeing him here again.
Some of you will be surprised to learn that you are my "cronies" just as much as I am.
It's a pity that there are still some here who seem to want to cause trouble, they know who they are, and I will now ask them for a final time to stop. Trolling will not be allowed.
Best regards, John
Posted 22/07/2009 - 23:29
Link
johnriley wrote:
Well I've just arrived back to find all this, and as most of you are not aware of what has happened behind the scenes in the past few days with a couple of members, apparently from the same group, I'll just say that some of the comments in this thread are somewhat disingenuous to say the least.
Cloudhunter is obviously way out of line, intentionally so it seems, so unfortunately we will not be seeing him here again.
Some of you will be surprised to learn that you are my "cronies" just as much as I am.
It's a pity that there are still some here who seem to want to cause trouble, they know who they are, and I will now ask them for a final time to stop. Trolling will not be allowed.
You have cronies? lucky sob....I wish I had cronies... then I would rule the world!!!Well I've just arrived back to find all this, and as most of you are not aware of what has happened behind the scenes in the past few days with a couple of members, apparently from the same group, I'll just say that some of the comments in this thread are somewhat disingenuous to say the least.
Cloudhunter is obviously way out of line, intentionally so it seems, so unfortunately we will not be seeing him here again.
Some of you will be surprised to learn that you are my "cronies" just as much as I am.
It's a pity that there are still some here who seem to want to cause trouble, they know who they are, and I will now ask them for a final time to stop. Trolling will not be allowed.
Bwah-ha-ha-ha!!!!
yeah, that is right...scotch and lotz of it!!!
Fired many shots. Didn't kill anything.
Posted 22/07/2009 - 23:31
Link
Don,
You are proof that education is something that, to a large extent, starts when you leave school. You are irrepressible, a pillar of the forum, the man who put the genius into ingenious, and an all-too-rare visitor nowadays.
G
You are proof that education is something that, to a large extent, starts when you leave school. You are irrepressible, a pillar of the forum, the man who put the genius into ingenious, and an all-too-rare visitor nowadays.
G
Keywords: Charming, polite, and generally agreeable.
Posted 22/07/2009 - 23:35
Link
George Lazarette wrote:
G
I cant quite understand what Joe did to deserve that comment George?Joe S wrote:
Just a quick note about proper use of language: 50 years ago the discussion would have been exactly the same.
And welcome back to our resident troll. Sometimes he's a business student, with textbook views on marketing; today he's an anthropologist. One day he might transmogrify into a real person, with views of his own, but don't hold your breath.Just a quick note about proper use of language: 50 years ago the discussion would have been exactly the same.
G
I think tempers are quite high now on this thread, and some of us have become very defensive. I applologise now for saying it, but I dont really see what this thread is achieving anymore to be perfectly honest.
Just think it's creating ill feeling in many directions through the community, and perhaps we could do without that.
Posted 22/07/2009 - 23:40
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George Lazarette wrote:
Don,
You are proof that education is something that, to a large extent, starts when you leave school. You are irrepressible, a pillar of the forum, the man who put the genius into ingenious, and an all-too-rare visitor nowadays.
G
Stop it... you're embarrassing me, it's not even good scotch... Johnny Walker red label...Don,
You are proof that education is something that, to a large extent, starts when you leave school. You are irrepressible, a pillar of the forum, the man who put the genius into ingenious, and an all-too-rare visitor nowadays.
G
Seriously.... I'm only dippin in 'cause I'm worried that I'm in trouble with the missus....
My motorcycle ya know.... that's why I've not been around much... I went through a radar trap the other day.... at a "Goto jail, go directly to jail, do not pass go do not collect $200.00" rate of speed.... I await the possiblitly of an insanely expensive ticket, that may or may not come in the mail...
only my wealth of photographic knowledge may save me... angle of incidence=angle of reflectance.... Did I lift the front wheel high enough to reflect the flash off the licence plate away from the camera? if so I live to post another day... there sure as heck wasn't enough time to slow down!
Fired many shots. Didn't kill anything.
Posted 22/07/2009 - 23:48
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Snootchies wrote:
Simple . He didn't. My fault for not making clear that I had switched my attention to Shaky, whose post was ostensibly on the subject of anthropolgy, but in reality was just a wind-up.George Lazarette wrote:
G
I cant quite understand what Joe did to deserve that comment George?Joe S wrote:
Just a quick note about proper use of language: 50 years ago the discussion would have been exactly the same.
And welcome back to our resident troll. Sometimes he's a business student, with textbook views on marketing; today he's an anthropologist. One day he might transmogrify into a real person, with views of his own, but don't hold your breath.Just a quick note about proper use of language: 50 years ago the discussion would have been exactly the same.
G
Apologies to Joe.
G
Keywords: Charming, polite, and generally agreeable.
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5155 posts
20 years
Surrey
I think his points on the first two are very valid. It was the criticism that first singled out this forum as a cut above the rest in my opinion. I for one really appreciate the thought that members put into comments. Whether it is to point out a better framing idea; comment on lack of contrast etc. it makes you think about the picture a little bit more, and indeed put more effort into thinking about a shot the next time you pick up your camera.
Some may think that George is making too much of an issue over correct use of English. Language does change over time and they may have a valid point. But I certainly won't knock George for his stance, and as an international forum, correct English and puctuation will assist those for whom English is not a first language.
We are all entitled to our own opinions and can express them freely on here subject to the host's rules. What I really find unacceptable is the rudeness of some replies his post here. If you don't agree with his opinion then say so by all means, but name-calling belongs in the playground, not here.
Just my twopenneth
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