FF sensor rumors
Posted 31/05/2015 - 21:33
Link
I am looking forward very much to the FF which I am sure will be a significant forward development that will not be overshadowed by the comparative competition , and for sure I will get one.
However I am also very interested in the performance of DA* lenses in the Cropped sensor mode (CSM) where arithmetically we can expect 24.7% bigger photo-sites on the full frame sensor configuration.
So apart from the obvious improvements from FF technology with dedicated or compatible FF Lenses, in CSM, projecting the the cropped image circle on to the much larger photosites on the FF sensor should give a better cropped image performance than the same cropped sensor lens on a K3 sensor, which is already pretty good.
So in Cropped sensor mode (CSM) we should get improved noise levels, better High ISO performance and improved dynamic range on existing lenses
However I am also very interested in the performance of DA* lenses in the Cropped sensor mode (CSM) where arithmetically we can expect 24.7% bigger photo-sites on the full frame sensor configuration.
So apart from the obvious improvements from FF technology with dedicated or compatible FF Lenses, in CSM, projecting the the cropped image circle on to the much larger photosites on the FF sensor should give a better cropped image performance than the same cropped sensor lens on a K3 sensor, which is already pretty good.
So in Cropped sensor mode (CSM) we should get improved noise levels, better High ISO performance and improved dynamic range on existing lenses
Daronl
Posted 31/05/2015 - 21:40
Link
That's an interesting and new take that! Up to now I think the general attitude to cropped mode on the FF has been 'what a waste of good sensor space .... why buy a big sensor just to use only part of it ... '
But what you say there Daron sounds really positive .... certainly adds value to current top spec APS-C lenses !
Now, what about my old SMC 50 1.7 .... is that going to be great on FF ..... (no, don't worry, that will probably be better in cropped mode as well !! ...:lol
But what you say there Daron sounds really positive .... certainly adds value to current top spec APS-C lenses !
Now, what about my old SMC 50 1.7 .... is that going to be great on FF ..... (no, don't worry, that will probably be better in cropped mode as well !! ...:lol
My Guides to the Pentax Digital Camera Flash Lighting System : Download here from the PentaxForums Homepage Article .... link
Pentax K7 with BG-4 Grip / Samyang 14mm f2.8 ED AS IF UMC / DA18-55mm f3.5-5.6 AL WR / SMC A28mm f2.8 / D FA 28-105mm / SMC F35-70 f3.5-4.5 / SMC A50mm f1.7 / Tamron AF70-300mm f4-5.6 Di LD macro / SMC M75-150mm f4.0 / Tamron Adaptall (CT-135) 135mm f2.8 / Asahi Takumar-A 2X tele-converter / Pentax AF-540FGZ (I & II) Flashes / Cactus RF60/X Flashes & V6/V6II Transceiver
Pentax K7 with BG-4 Grip / Samyang 14mm f2.8 ED AS IF UMC / DA18-55mm f3.5-5.6 AL WR / SMC A28mm f2.8 / D FA 28-105mm / SMC F35-70 f3.5-4.5 / SMC A50mm f1.7 / Tamron AF70-300mm f4-5.6 Di LD macro / SMC M75-150mm f4.0 / Tamron Adaptall (CT-135) 135mm f2.8 / Asahi Takumar-A 2X tele-converter / Pentax AF-540FGZ (I & II) Flashes / Cactus RF60/X Flashes & V6/V6II Transceiver
Posted 31/05/2015 - 21:49
Link
mattox wrote:
Rumor has it that Pentax are going to use the Sony 36 mp ff sensor for the FF body. No new technology there. Sony have been using it for 2 years now and so have Nikon. I really thought that Pentax would go with something new age. Whats are your thoughts about that?
That's what I'm talking about - 'new technology there'
Rumor has it that Pentax are going to use the Sony 36 mp ff sensor for the FF body. No new technology there. Sony have been using it for 2 years now and so have Nikon. I really thought that Pentax would go with something new age. Whats are your thoughts about that?
Posted 31/05/2015 - 21:51
Link
McGregNi wrote:
That's an interesting and new take that! Up to now I think the general attitude to cropped mode on the FF has been 'what a waste of good sensor space .... why buy a big sensor just to use only part of it ... '
But what you say there Daron sounds really positive .... certainly adds value to current top spec APS-C lenses !
Now, what about my old SMC 50 1.7 .... is that going to be great on FF ..... (no, don't worry, that will probably be better in cropped mode as well !! ...:lol
For sure Greg the older Standard and telephotos lenses should see a similar improvement but as we go increasingly wideangle then likely the improvement will correspondingly diminish (but still be better than on a cropped sensor(APS-C); so for sure FF should bring an advantage to the older lenses too whether film era or non-FF digital era lenses.That's an interesting and new take that! Up to now I think the general attitude to cropped mode on the FF has been 'what a waste of good sensor space .... why buy a big sensor just to use only part of it ... '
But what you say there Daron sounds really positive .... certainly adds value to current top spec APS-C lenses !
Now, what about my old SMC 50 1.7 .... is that going to be great on FF ..... (no, don't worry, that will probably be better in cropped mode as well !! ...:lol
Also consider a possible 2nd FF variant with a 24mp FF sensor ; Photosies would be around 50% larger than on the APS-C format - imagine the low light improvement not to mention Dynamic Range and noise levels .
It's all good (FF)
Daronl
Posted 31/05/2015 - 22:13
Link
I feeling excited already ..... lets hope we see some special Pentax pricing and value also !
My Guides to the Pentax Digital Camera Flash Lighting System : Download here from the PentaxForums Homepage Article .... link
Pentax K7 with BG-4 Grip / Samyang 14mm f2.8 ED AS IF UMC / DA18-55mm f3.5-5.6 AL WR / SMC A28mm f2.8 / D FA 28-105mm / SMC F35-70 f3.5-4.5 / SMC A50mm f1.7 / Tamron AF70-300mm f4-5.6 Di LD macro / SMC M75-150mm f4.0 / Tamron Adaptall (CT-135) 135mm f2.8 / Asahi Takumar-A 2X tele-converter / Pentax AF-540FGZ (I & II) Flashes / Cactus RF60/X Flashes & V6/V6II Transceiver
Pentax K7 with BG-4 Grip / Samyang 14mm f2.8 ED AS IF UMC / DA18-55mm f3.5-5.6 AL WR / SMC A28mm f2.8 / D FA 28-105mm / SMC F35-70 f3.5-4.5 / SMC A50mm f1.7 / Tamron AF70-300mm f4-5.6 Di LD macro / SMC M75-150mm f4.0 / Tamron Adaptall (CT-135) 135mm f2.8 / Asahi Takumar-A 2X tele-converter / Pentax AF-540FGZ (I & II) Flashes / Cactus RF60/X Flashes & V6/V6II Transceiver
Posted 31/05/2015 - 22:36
Link
There was a time when we used film and the parameters needed of a lens were well understood. Good lenses could deliver the quality to exploit the finest grain, sharpest emulsions. That was so for decades.
I feel a bit sorry for manufacturers now, because the requirements of advancing sensors need unprecedented quality levels that are constantly being revised upwards. I would suggest this is why the lower cost lenses don't survive as long these days. It's a tribute to the Limited range that even the film lenses are still at the top of the tree.
The new lenses promise to be something special and it will be very interesting to see how they behave on FF, APS-C and even on film for some of us. I think these are exciting times.
I feel a bit sorry for manufacturers now, because the requirements of advancing sensors need unprecedented quality levels that are constantly being revised upwards. I would suggest this is why the lower cost lenses don't survive as long these days. It's a tribute to the Limited range that even the film lenses are still at the top of the tree.
The new lenses promise to be something special and it will be very interesting to see how they behave on FF, APS-C and even on film for some of us. I think these are exciting times.
Best regards, John
Posted 31/05/2015 - 23:26
Link
Quote:
If they do go for 36MP it would be foolish to bring out just one FF camera. They need another with 16-24MP.
As Ken Rockwell says about 36MP in the D810 "for nutjobs who actually think they need 36 megapixels, while the D750 is what most people, including myself, really want."
Take a look at the present and very near future; items such as the Canon EOS 5D R, at 50+mp... At two camera stores in america it's already pre-sold over one thousand copies.If they do go for 36MP it would be foolish to bring out just one FF camera. They need another with 16-24MP.
As Ken Rockwell says about 36MP in the D810 "for nutjobs who actually think they need 36 megapixels, while the D750 is what most people, including myself, really want."
It should be even more interesting to see what type of price point Pentax comes up with. Guaranteed it won't be anywhere near the price point of Canon's "entry level" price point full-frame
Posted 01/06/2015 - 06:50
Link
johnriley wrote:
There was a time when we used film and the parameters needed of a lens were well understood. Good lenses could deliver the quality to exploit the finest grain, sharpest emulsions. That was so for decades.
I feel a bit sorry for manufacturers now, because the requirements of advancing sensors need unprecedented quality levels that are constantly being revised upwards. I would suggest this is why the lower cost lenses don't survive as long these days. It's a tribute to the Limited range that even the film lenses are still at the top of the tree.
The new lenses promise to be something special and it will be very interesting to see how they behave on FF, APS-C and even on film for some of us. I think these are exciting times.
Agreed. I had a Sigma 500mm APO lens. With a good tripod etc, I could get fairly sharp images on slide film. IIRC it was ok with the istD 6Mp sensor, but I could not get anything approaching sharp even on the K10D! I got rid of it - wonder how awful it would look with the later sensors!
There was a time when we used film and the parameters needed of a lens were well understood. Good lenses could deliver the quality to exploit the finest grain, sharpest emulsions. That was so for decades.
I feel a bit sorry for manufacturers now, because the requirements of advancing sensors need unprecedented quality levels that are constantly being revised upwards. I would suggest this is why the lower cost lenses don't survive as long these days. It's a tribute to the Limited range that even the film lenses are still at the top of the tree.
The new lenses promise to be something special and it will be very interesting to see how they behave on FF, APS-C and even on film for some of us. I think these are exciting times.
Andy
Posted 01/06/2015 - 07:39
Link
Algernon wrote:
If they do go for 36MP it would be foolish to bring out just one FF camera. They need another with 16-24MP.
As Ken Rockwell says about 36MP in the D810 "for nutjobs who actually think they need 36 megapixels, while the D750 is what most people, including myself, really want."
http://kenrockwell.com/nikon/comparisons/d810-vs-d750.htm
--
Sony did the right thing by releasing 3 models 12MP, 24MP and 36MP If they do go for 36MP it would be foolish to bring out just one FF camera. They need another with 16-24MP.
As Ken Rockwell says about 36MP in the D810 "for nutjobs who actually think they need 36 megapixels, while the D750 is what most people, including myself, really want."
http://kenrockwell.com/nikon/comparisons/d810-vs-d750.htm
--
Photographers have different needs/wants. Some of us want high dynamic range which the 12MP sensor suits perfectly, some want high resolution which the 36MP sensor suits and some would like a compromise between the two.
I wouldn't expect Pentax to release a FF camera with 3 variations, but as algi sensibly indicates it would serve them really well to release two variations. One with high res and the other with high dynamic range. If Pentax released a 12MP FF version I'd be in it like a rat up a drainpipe!
[i]Bodies: 1x K-5IIs, 2x K-5, Sony TX-5, Nokia 808
Lenses: Pentax DA 10-17mm ED(IF) Fish Eye, Pentax DA 14mm f/2.8, Sigma 17-70mm f/2.8, Pentax-A 28mm f/2.8, Sigma 30mm F1.4 EX DC, Pentax-A 50mm f/1.2, Pentax-A 50mm f/1.4, Pentax-FA 50mm f/1.4, Pentax-A 50mm f/1.7, Pentax DA* 50-135mm f/2.8, Sigma 135-400mm APO DG, and more ..
Flash: AF-540FGZ, Vivitar 283
Lenses: Pentax DA 10-17mm ED(IF) Fish Eye, Pentax DA 14mm f/2.8, Sigma 17-70mm f/2.8, Pentax-A 28mm f/2.8, Sigma 30mm F1.4 EX DC, Pentax-A 50mm f/1.2, Pentax-A 50mm f/1.4, Pentax-FA 50mm f/1.4, Pentax-A 50mm f/1.7, Pentax DA* 50-135mm f/2.8, Sigma 135-400mm APO DG, and more ..
Flash: AF-540FGZ, Vivitar 283
Posted 01/06/2015 - 13:28
Link
I'd be personally more interests in the lower light capabilities and narrower depth of field characteristics of full frame than a higher MP count. Most TVs and computer monitors/ tablets etc are still in the 2M range, so other than heavy cropping and large commercial printing purposes, higher than say 30MP would be lost on me. Even then 16-20MP would be sufficient.
Pentax makes cameras and not sensors, so they have to work with what they can get I guess. A 3 year old sensor is getting on a bit though if we're honest about the rate of change in this industry though.
Pentax makes cameras and not sensors, so they have to work with what they can get I guess. A 3 year old sensor is getting on a bit though if we're honest about the rate of change in this industry though.
Posted 01/06/2015 - 18:53
Link
Interesting thoughts. Let's hope for the best. Knowing Pentax they will blow us away with some amazing camera I am sure
richandfleur wrote:
I'd be personally more interests in the lower light capabilities and narrower depth of field characteristics of full frame than a higher MP count. Most TVs and computer monitors/ tablets etc are still in the 2M range, so other than heavy cropping and large commercial printing purposes, higher than say 30MP would be lost on me. Even then 16-20MP would be sufficient.
Pentax makes cameras and not sensors, so they have to work with what they can get I guess. A 3 year old sensor is getting on a bit though if we're honest about the rate of change in this industry though.
I'd be personally more interests in the lower light capabilities and narrower depth of field characteristics of full frame than a higher MP count. Most TVs and computer monitors/ tablets etc are still in the 2M range, so other than heavy cropping and large commercial printing purposes, higher than say 30MP would be lost on me. Even then 16-20MP would be sufficient.
Pentax makes cameras and not sensors, so they have to work with what they can get I guess. A 3 year old sensor is getting on a bit though if we're honest about the rate of change in this industry though.
Posted 01/06/2015 - 19:26
Link
Daronl wrote:
I am looking forward very much to the FF which I am sure will be a significant forward development that will not be overshadowed by the comparative competition , and for sure I will get one.
However I am also very interested in the performance of DA* lenses in the Cropped sensor mode (CSM) where arithmetically we can expect 24.7% bigger photo-sites on the full frame sensor configuration.
So apart from the obvious improvements from FF technology with dedicated or compatible FF Lenses, in CSM, projecting the the cropped image circle on to the much larger photosites on the FF sensor should give a better cropped image performance than the same cropped sensor lens on a K3 sensor, which is already pretty good.
So in Cropped sensor mode (CSM) we should get improved noise levels, better High ISO performance and improved dynamic range on existing lenses
I'm not sure what your on about here? The cropped sensor mode will use about 15.3MP of the 36/37MP sensor. So the results should be similar to a K-5 and not even as good as a K-3 I am looking forward very much to the FF which I am sure will be a significant forward development that will not be overshadowed by the comparative competition , and for sure I will get one.
However I am also very interested in the performance of DA* lenses in the Cropped sensor mode (CSM) where arithmetically we can expect 24.7% bigger photo-sites on the full frame sensor configuration.
So apart from the obvious improvements from FF technology with dedicated or compatible FF Lenses, in CSM, projecting the the cropped image circle on to the much larger photosites on the FF sensor should give a better cropped image performance than the same cropped sensor lens on a K3 sensor, which is already pretty good.
So in Cropped sensor mode (CSM) we should get improved noise levels, better High ISO performance and improved dynamic range on existing lenses
--
Half Man... Half Pentax ... Half Cucumber
Pentax K-1 + K-5 and some other stuff
Algi
Pentax K-1 + K-5 and some other stuff
Algi
Posted 01/06/2015 - 19:32
Link
Well I've got this all wrong. I thought it would be 36/1.5= 24 mp. I am wrong. Need to do some research then
Posted 01/06/2015 - 19:36
Link
Just read this post now to shed some light on the runour situation
http://www.techtoyreviews.com/pentax-camera-sony-fullframe-sensor-rumor/
http://www.techtoyreviews.com/pentax-camera-sony-fullframe-sensor-rumor/
Add Comment
To leave a comment - Log in to Pentax User or create a new account.
5986 posts
14 years
Surrey,
England
Rumor has it that Pentax are going to use the Sony 36 mp ff sensor for the FF body. No new technology there. Sony have been using it for 2 years now and so have Nikon. I really thought that Pentax would go with something new age. Whats are your thoughts about that?
Pixel Shift
Sensor developments do seem to have slowed down and technologies stabilised, so really I don't think a very good sensor developed just 3 years ago is much of a concern. Personally, I don't have strong thoughts on the number of megapixels required. I manage quite well with 14.5mp for now, but so long as I also get a reasonable dynamic range boost, then a few million more won't go astray and could always be put to good use for my large poster prints, and of course increased cropping potential if needed.
I think another point not mentioned here so far is the size of the pixel sites. Is it not the case that a FF sensor will have larger pixel sites, each gathering more light, so the sensor dimensions will be filled up with less megapixels than would be required for to fill the same space on an APS-C model .... ??
Pentax K7 with BG-4 Grip / Samyang 14mm f2.8 ED AS IF UMC / DA18-55mm f3.5-5.6 AL WR / SMC A28mm f2.8 / D FA 28-105mm / SMC F35-70 f3.5-4.5 / SMC A50mm f1.7 / Tamron AF70-300mm f4-5.6 Di LD macro / SMC M75-150mm f4.0 / Tamron Adaptall (CT-135) 135mm f2.8 / Asahi Takumar-A 2X tele-converter / Pentax AF-540FGZ (I & II) Flashes / Cactus RF60/X Flashes & V6/V6II Transceiver