Digital Film


beakynet

Link Posted 22/08/2013 - 10:08
Back in 2000 I signed up as a tester for a project refered to as Silicon Film. Unfortunately it never happened.

Fast forward to 2013 and Silocon Film is back as DigiPod! A UK developer has designed a solution and is looking for backing for a production run!

IF he gets 1000 pre-orders, then this product will become a realality. However, if he gets 5000 pre-orders, then this product will have a 4/3rds sensor!

Check out DigiPod on Indiegog

I have been using film in my old Pentax 5MZn and developing and lo-res scans on CD are setting me back 13.98 a film so at 199, so it will pay for itself in just 540 frames (equivalent to 15 rolls of film)!
Bodies: K5IIs, K7, MZ5n, LX, MV
Lenses: DA*16-50, DA18-55WR, DA18-135, DAL35, M50 F2, A50 f1.4, FA50 f1.4, DA*50-135, DA55-300, Tamron 70-300, DFA 100 WR Macro, M135 f3.5, Sigma 120-400 APO DG HSM, Tokina 500 f8.0
Flash: Metz 58, Metz 48
Accessories: BG4, Pentax right angle finder, Pentax mirror adaptor lens, O-ME53 Viewfinder Loupe
Auto 110 System: Auto 110, Winder, 18mm, 24mm, 50mm, 70mm, 20-40mm, AF100P, 1.7x telecon

Mongoose

Link Posted 22/08/2013 - 10:23
it's a neat idea and I hope it works, but unless it's at least an APS-C sensor it's not going to sell. Sensors of the sizes he's talking about will only be any use if he can get them into a 110 cart.
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bforbes

Link Posted 22/08/2013 - 10:29
In the video did he not say, if he achieves the right amount of funding, he can fit a sensor equivalent to full frame?
Barrie
Too Old To Die Young

http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/artists/barrieforbes
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beakynet

Link Posted 22/08/2013 - 10:37
It is all based on economy of scale - the more orders he gets, the bigger the sensor can be! For me the 4/3rds sensor size is of a real interest. The smaller options are not much better than an oversized Q!

For once, it seems that we have a chance for a Digital LX, and possibly a full frame Pantax Digital - spread the word!
Bodies: K5IIs, K7, MZ5n, LX, MV
Lenses: DA*16-50, DA18-55WR, DA18-135, DAL35, M50 F2, A50 f1.4, FA50 f1.4, DA*50-135, DA55-300, Tamron 70-300, DFA 100 WR Macro, M135 f3.5, Sigma 120-400 APO DG HSM, Tokina 500 f8.0
Flash: Metz 58, Metz 48
Accessories: BG4, Pentax right angle finder, Pentax mirror adaptor lens, O-ME53 Viewfinder Loupe
Auto 110 System: Auto 110, Winder, 18mm, 24mm, 50mm, 70mm, 20-40mm, AF100P, 1.7x telecon

Mongoose

Link Posted 22/08/2013 - 10:47
I get that, but his largest suggested option is 4/3rds which is a 2x crop factor.

Clearly APS-C or 35mm sizes would generate more interest and he must know that, so either going that large is prohibitively expensive or it's technically unfeasable.
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johnriley

Link Posted 22/08/2013 - 11:48
Not something I'd buy. DSLRs are so efficient that I don't see the point now of making things more difficult. Some years ago when DSLRs were hugely expensive there might have been a point in putting "digital film" in our film SLRs, if the price was right. Now the idea has IMHO been well overtaken.
Best regards, John

JohnX

Link Posted 22/08/2013 - 11:59
johnriley wrote:
Not something I'd buy. DSLRs are so efficient that I don't see the point now of making things more difficult. Some years ago when DSLRs were hugely expensive there might have been a point in putting "digital film" in our film SLRs, if the price was right. Now the idea has IMHO been well overtaken.

Couldn't disagree more. Sorry John. There's something about older, well engineered, film cameras that makes them a pleasure to use, but film can be a nuisance and expensive to get processed, so what's wrong with 'digital film'?

Best of both worlds I reckon
Last Edited by JohnX on 22/08/2013 - 11:59

johnriley

Link Posted 22/08/2013 - 12:02
Nothing wrong with it John, if that's what you want to do.

I think I'd be more impressed with a digital back though, rather like the ones for medium format cameras. However, that would be a really expensive option.
Best regards, John

Mongoose

Link Posted 22/08/2013 - 12:08
with an APS-C or larger sensor I'd be tempted, the older cameras with non-crippled mounts work so much better with older glass, not to mention the enjoyment of just using something like an ME-Super or K-1000. It's an experience which is totally different from using a DSLR and a well executed digital film concept could remove a barrier to that enjoyment.

I'm not saying the older bodies are better than a DSLR, clearly the latter is more technologically advanced and can do things an old film SLR just can't, but it's a totally different experience which some enjoy.
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gwing

Link Posted 22/08/2013 - 12:17
JohnX wrote:
johnriley wrote:
Not something I'd buy. DSLRs are so efficient that I don't see the point now of making things more difficult. Some years ago when DSLRs were hugely expensive there might have been a point in putting "digital film" in our film SLRs, if the price was right. Now the idea has IMHO been well overtaken.

Couldn't disagree more. Sorry John. There's something about older, well engineered, film cameras that makes them a pleasure to use, but film can be a nuisance and expensive to get processed, so what's wrong with 'digital film'?

Best of both worlds I reckon

Well I hate obsolescence and the thing I miss from the film days is the old cherished camera (MX in my case) that never becomes obsolete and can go on using new and improved films as they come out.
BUT
in the digital era 'digital film' is really just market speak for interchangeable or upgradeable sensors. That seems a good idea and it would be great to just upgrade a sensor rather than buy a new camera except:
a) Sensors have to link to the remaining camera electronics which are designed for a certain sensor resolution etc. There would be only so much sensor improvement that could be accommodated without replacing the rest of the camera's electronics. As a guess we might get two generations of sensor out of it but no more.
b) The camera taking interchangeable standardised sensors is likely to be bigger, bulkier and more expensive than a conventional DSLR optimised for a particular sensor.
c) The interchangeable sensors are probably going to end up no (or not much) cheaper than the cost of a new model less trade in of the old. Unless we have a 'standard' interchangeable sensor module standard that all manufacturers use allowing economies of scale.

Basically I don't think this will happen as interchangeability standards aren't in the camera manufacturer's interests and there pretty plainly isn't any great financial benefit to force development down this route. It would be sort of nice to buy a camera where all the mechanics were high quality and built to last with the sensor plus all electronics on an upgradeable module - but I don't think that will happen either. While I'm on wish lists it would also be nice to have open source camera firmware and software to allow detailed mapping of functions and low level function sequences to controls - I'm a little more optimistic on getting that but not that much more.
Last Edited by gwing on 22/08/2013 - 12:18

beakynet

Link Posted 22/08/2013 - 14:50
johnriley wrote:
Nothing wrong with it John, if that's what you want to do.

I think I'd be more impressed with a digital back though, rather like the ones for medium format cameras. However, that would be a really expensive option.

In theory, this will fit in all my film cameras, a digital back would likely be model spacific. Also, as this is cropped, I can use all my current digital lenses on my old camera, including my 8mm Samyang and 50 to 135 DA*!
Bodies: K5IIs, K7, MZ5n, LX, MV
Lenses: DA*16-50, DA18-55WR, DA18-135, DAL35, M50 F2, A50 f1.4, FA50 f1.4, DA*50-135, DA55-300, Tamron 70-300, DFA 100 WR Macro, M135 f3.5, Sigma 120-400 APO DG HSM, Tokina 500 f8.0
Flash: Metz 58, Metz 48
Accessories: BG4, Pentax right angle finder, Pentax mirror adaptor lens, O-ME53 Viewfinder Loupe
Auto 110 System: Auto 110, Winder, 18mm, 24mm, 50mm, 70mm, 20-40mm, AF100P, 1.7x telecon

vic cross

Link Posted 22/08/2013 - 16:03
Round about 2002/2003/2005??????? there was a digital back developed for 35mm cameras (Make unknown) and a lot of hype about it, but it never saw the light of day. I wonder what happened to it????
CHEERS Vic.
Born again biker with lots of Pentax bits. Every day I wake up is a good day. I'm so old I don't even buy green bananas.

gwing

Link Posted 22/08/2013 - 17:13
Having watched the video I'm warming to the concept more, but to be worthwhile for me I think it would have to be:
a) Reasonably cheap. Yes it would be lovely to use the old MX again in purely clockwork mode with no battery even for meter but the lack of LCD display on camera is sufficient drawback I don't think I would use it as my first line camera, and there is a limit on how much I would spend on a 'just for fun' novelty.
b) At least APSC. Even at APSC I have a limited number of lenses that are both wide enough for use and possess the needed aperture rings. Even smaller formats would I think be impossible to find a suitable lens for, especially one that will be high enough quality to survive the high crop ratios.

Now put a really high quality FF sensor in such a package at a price that presumably could be a lot less than a full FF camera and I might be tempted to use it seriously as a first string camera, despite the lack of digital preview. It certainly would meet my original requirements of compact, robust and high IQ. In fact it would be great as you could chuck such a camera in the rucksack and not really worry too much if the body gets knocked about given that they can be replaced for next to nothing.
Last Edited by gwing on 22/08/2013 - 17:14

Smeggypants

Link Posted 23/08/2013 - 06:27
johnriley wrote:
Nothing wrong with it John, if that's what you want to do.

I think I'd be more impressed with a digital back though, rather like the ones for medium format cameras. However, that would be a really expensive option.

Well it is a digital back to all intents and purposes. One that can be inserted into any 35mm SLR.

I think it's a fantastic idea.

The tactile experience of using old SLR cams without having to worry about film and developing is a wonderful idea.

No it's not going to replace or compete with any modern DSLR , but frankly that's not the point is it.




gwing wrote:
It certainly would meet my original requirements of compact, robust and high IQ. In fact it would be great as you could chuck such a camera in the rucksack and not really worry too much if the body gets knocked about given that they can be replaced for next to nothing.

Exactly.
[i]Bodies: 1x K-5IIs, 2x K-5, Sony TX-5, Nokia 808
Lenses: Pentax DA 10-17mm ED(IF) Fish Eye, Pentax DA 14mm f/2.8, Sigma 17-70mm f/2.8, Pentax-A 28mm f/2.8, Sigma 30mm F1.4 EX DC, Pentax-A 50mm f/1.2, Pentax-A 50mm f/1.4, Pentax-FA 50mm f/1.4, Pentax-A 50mm f/1.7, Pentax DA* 50-135mm f/2.8, Sigma 135-400mm APO DG, and more ..
Flash: AF-540FGZ, Vivitar 283

Mongoose

Link Posted 23/08/2013 - 08:11
Smeggypants wrote:

gwing wrote:
In fact it would be great as you could chuck such a camera in the rucksack and not really worry too much if the body gets knocked about given that they can be replaced for next to nothing.

Exactly.

Especially when you consider the kind of punishment something like a K-1000 or MX can take and keep on clicking. Mine has dinks and scrapes all over it and most of the trim is missing, but the bits that matter are perfect.
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