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CCD vs CMOS

jemx99
Posted 06/10/2013 - 22:09 - Helpful Comment Link
Pentaxophile wrote:


The difference between the CCD sensors (and the old generation CMOS from Samsung) are NOT trivial though, at higher ISO. So CCD-nostalgics ought to pause before they throw the baby out with the bath water.

I always used to use 100 asa film - we don't always need high iso capability - my K30 does do low light very well but I'd love a K10 to go with it - maybe it's horses for courses?
McGregNi wrote:
That's why I thought it would be useful to break it down a bit technically

Honestly Nigel we don't always need to get technical - sometimes it's just something you feel - that's what separates us from robots
judderman62
Posted 06/10/2013 - 22:12 - Helpful Comment Link
jemx99 wrote:


Honestly Nigel we don't always need to get technical - sometimes it's just something you feel - that's what separates us from robots

spot on
- -
Mike

Pentax K5 / Pentax K5 11/ Pentax K200D / Canon Rebel T1 i / Canon 650D / Pentax MX-1 / Fuji XF1 /Fuji X 10 / Canon EOS-M / Canon G10/ Pentax Mz-7 x 2
Mongoose
Posted 07/10/2013 - 17:05 Link
Nigel does have a point though, if it can't be nailed down what the "special" qualities of the CCD image are, then when the last K10D clicks it's last click, those qualities will die with it.
you don't have to be mad to post here



but it does help
McGregNi
Posted 07/10/2013 - 21:45 Link
that was my concern ..... i think smeggy said earlier that a ccd camera will still be working in 50 years time. is that feasable? How can we know the extent of the components lifecycle based on our present position along it?
My Guides to the Pentax Digital Camera Flash Lighting System : Download here from the PentaxForums Homepage Article .... link
Pentax K7 with BG-4 Grip / Samyang 14mm f2.8 ED AS IF UMC / DA18-55mm f3.5-5.6 AL WR / SMC A28mm f2.8 / D FA 28-105mm / SMC F35-70 f3.5-4.5 / SMC A50mm f1.7 / Tamron AF70-300mm f4-5.6 Di LD macro / SMC M75-150mm f4.0 / Tamron Adaptall (CT-135) 135mm f2.8 / Asahi Takumar-A 2X tele-converter / Pentax AF-540FGZ (I & II) Flashes / Cactus RF60/X Flashes & V6/V6II Transceiver
Smeggypants
Posted 07/10/2013 - 22:45 Link
McGregNi wrote:
that was my concern ..... i think smeggy said earlier that a ccd camera will still be working in 50 years time. is that feasable? How can we know the extent of the components lifecycle based on our present position along it?

I've got electronic musical stuff from the early 70s that's still working. The Quality control and reliability of electronics is also much higher than it was back then.

So yes, it's highly feasible that a K-10D will still be working in 50 years time.

Software will not turn the output from a CMOS sensor into somethign from a CCD sensor, just like software film emulators wont' replace real film

If anyone is that precious about the output from a CCD sensor then buy a few K10Ds and keep a couple unused as spares. They'll last your lifetime
[i]Bodies: 1x K-5IIs, 2x K-5, Sony TX-5, Nokia 808
Lenses: Pentax DA 10-17mm ED(IF) Fish Eye, Pentax DA 14mm f/2.8, Sigma 17-70mm f/2.8, Pentax-A 28mm f/2.8, Sigma 30mm F1.4 EX DC, Pentax-A 50mm f/1.2, Pentax-A 50mm f/1.4, Pentax-FA 50mm f/1.4, Pentax-A 50mm f/1.7, Pentax DA* 50-135mm f/2.8, Sigma 135-400mm APO DG, and more ..
Flash: AF-540FGZ, Vivitar 283
cabstar
Posted 07/10/2013 - 22:53 Link
If i carry in shooting like i do with my mkii currently 30k actuations since january i doubt it will last 5 years lol
PPG Wedding photography Flickr
Concert photography

Currently on a Pentax hiatus until an FF Pentax is released
johnriley
Posted 07/10/2013 - 23:43 Link
The cameras might last as long as the lead-free solders do....
Best regards, John
Smeggypants
Posted 07/10/2013 - 23:45 Link
cabstar wrote:
If i carry in shooting like i do with my mkii currently 30k actuations since january i doubt it will last 5 years lol

Indeed. that's why I said buy a few of them.
[i]Bodies: 1x K-5IIs, 2x K-5, Sony TX-5, Nokia 808
Lenses: Pentax DA 10-17mm ED(IF) Fish Eye, Pentax DA 14mm f/2.8, Sigma 17-70mm f/2.8, Pentax-A 28mm f/2.8, Sigma 30mm F1.4 EX DC, Pentax-A 50mm f/1.2, Pentax-A 50mm f/1.4, Pentax-FA 50mm f/1.4, Pentax-A 50mm f/1.7, Pentax DA* 50-135mm f/2.8, Sigma 135-400mm APO DG, and more ..
Flash: AF-540FGZ, Vivitar 283
Algernon
Posted 08/10/2013 - 08:44 Link
Battery operated equipment has a very short life. The batteries
won't be available in a few years time.

I've got an old top of the range Sony Minidisk Recorder MZ-N10 the
batteries became unavailable a few years ago. The recorder was
released in 2002.

Same with a Creative MP3 player that I have.

I have several battery operated drills that I can't buy
batteries for.

-
Half Man... Half Pentax ... Half Cucumber

Pentax K-1 + K-5 and some other stuff

Algi
johnriley
Posted 08/10/2013 - 09:18 Link
Almost every battery ever made can be sourced. The Small Battery Company are the obvious place to start, but eBay and Amazon have a wealth of odd items available. If that fails, medical and dental suppliers have access to some very esoteric batteries used in some older medical/dental equipment.

In terms of cameras, I can't offhand think of any that are now unusable because of battery unavailability. Flashgun NiCad battery packs may in some cases be a bit tricky and I'm not sure about the NiCad packs for some Rollei medium format SLRs.
Best regards, John
McGregNi
Posted 08/10/2013 - 11:05 Link
My question above about the 'feasible' lifetime of a digital slr was really fishing to flag up the weak points - it may not be the camera as a whole that will be vulnerable, but individual tiny components whose degradation may be unpredictable, whether it's being used or just stored. John you mentioned solders - I guess the next question then is how practical would it be to keep maintaining these items to drag out the working lifecycle?
My Guides to the Pentax Digital Camera Flash Lighting System : Download here from the PentaxForums Homepage Article .... link
Pentax K7 with BG-4 Grip / Samyang 14mm f2.8 ED AS IF UMC / DA18-55mm f3.5-5.6 AL WR / SMC A28mm f2.8 / D FA 28-105mm / SMC F35-70 f3.5-4.5 / SMC A50mm f1.7 / Tamron AF70-300mm f4-5.6 Di LD macro / SMC M75-150mm f4.0 / Tamron Adaptall (CT-135) 135mm f2.8 / Asahi Takumar-A 2X tele-converter / Pentax AF-540FGZ (I & II) Flashes / Cactus RF60/X Flashes & V6/V6II Transceiver
Edited by McGregNi: 08/10/2013 - 11:06
Mongoose
Posted 08/10/2013 - 12:06 Link
I read somewhere that the lifetime of a silicon chip is approximately 10 years, give or take.

I read that some time ago, and I'm not sure if advances in technology are causing it to go up or down, but I would propose that the lifespan of the CCD itself and the associated processing hardware will put a hard limit on the lifespan of the camera. These items are not designed to be replaced, and in any case replacements are unlikely to remain sourcable.

In the old days it was mechanical bits and all you need is a mechanical engineer who'll make you a new sprocket. It might be expensive, but it would always be do-able. You wont be able to do the same thing when your PRIME imaging engine packs up, I doubt even Pentax could supply a replacement at this point even if they wanted to.
you don't have to be mad to post here



but it does help
McGregNi
Posted 08/10/2013 - 12:11 Link
So we have to make a wishlish for a 'Siver Efex Pro Pentax CCD filter Pack'
My Guides to the Pentax Digital Camera Flash Lighting System : Download here from the PentaxForums Homepage Article .... link
Pentax K7 with BG-4 Grip / Samyang 14mm f2.8 ED AS IF UMC / DA18-55mm f3.5-5.6 AL WR / SMC A28mm f2.8 / D FA 28-105mm / SMC F35-70 f3.5-4.5 / SMC A50mm f1.7 / Tamron AF70-300mm f4-5.6 Di LD macro / SMC M75-150mm f4.0 / Tamron Adaptall (CT-135) 135mm f2.8 / Asahi Takumar-A 2X tele-converter / Pentax AF-540FGZ (I & II) Flashes / Cactus RF60/X Flashes & V6/V6II Transceiver
Smeggypants
Posted 08/10/2013 - 15:57 Link
Mongoose wrote:
I read somewhere that the lifetime of a silicon chip is approximately 10 years, give or take.

Well you read wrong

I've got electronic musical stuff from the early 70s still working and even more stuff from the 80s still working.

Friend of mine until recently had a "Vintage" electronic Calculator collection" from the late 70s and 80s. He recently sold it all on ebay ( some of them went for a few hundred pounds each amazingly ) and most powered up and worked fine.
[i]Bodies: 1x K-5IIs, 2x K-5, Sony TX-5, Nokia 808
Lenses: Pentax DA 10-17mm ED(IF) Fish Eye, Pentax DA 14mm f/2.8, Sigma 17-70mm f/2.8, Pentax-A 28mm f/2.8, Sigma 30mm F1.4 EX DC, Pentax-A 50mm f/1.2, Pentax-A 50mm f/1.4, Pentax-FA 50mm f/1.4, Pentax-A 50mm f/1.7, Pentax DA* 50-135mm f/2.8, Sigma 135-400mm APO DG, and more ..
Flash: AF-540FGZ, Vivitar 283
Smeggypants
Posted 08/10/2013 - 15:57 Link
McGregNi wrote:
So we have to make a wishlish for a 'Siver Efex Pro Pentax CCD filter Pack'

]

if you want a software emulation that doesn't really emulate what it's supposed to then yup
[i]Bodies: 1x K-5IIs, 2x K-5, Sony TX-5, Nokia 808
Lenses: Pentax DA 10-17mm ED(IF) Fish Eye, Pentax DA 14mm f/2.8, Sigma 17-70mm f/2.8, Pentax-A 28mm f/2.8, Sigma 30mm F1.4 EX DC, Pentax-A 50mm f/1.2, Pentax-A 50mm f/1.4, Pentax-FA 50mm f/1.4, Pentax-A 50mm f/1.7, Pentax DA* 50-135mm f/2.8, Sigma 135-400mm APO DG, and more ..
Flash: AF-540FGZ, Vivitar 283

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