Asahi Photo Solenoid Repair Asahi Photo Solenoid Repair Asahi Photo Solenoid Repair

CCD vs CMOS

Smeggypants
Posted 05/10/2013 - 02:07 - Helpful Comment Link
McGregNi wrote:
People keep saying this - I don't know about it because I haven't used any of these older cameras nor looked at comparison examples. But, if these special qualities are not going to be lost forever eventually, then you'd better start to think about some proper analysis of these files.

If whatever makes up this special character cannot be broken down into 'technical' components then there's no chance of understanding it enough to re-create it with current technology.And eventually those cameras will stop working.

Its interesting isn't it that there's a market for software that tries to re-create the 'feel' and character of various 35mm films (negs & slides). These qualities were things that people admired and presumably miss with digital capture now.

But the software designers would have had to do some serious analysis of those films and their output, and drawn up detailed parameters to re-create the correct effect under every possible ISO rating, exposure value and colour combinations.

Maybe the same could be done for older ccd digital cameras - Silver Efex K100d Plugin ?

Problem is the Software recreation never equals the real thing. This is the case with analogue musical instruments, tape, vinyl valve amps, etc as it is with analogue film.

People still use old music equipment from the 1960s which is still working. There's no reason why someone couldn't use a K10D in 50 years time.

Also remember that some people have no interest in understanding the technical reason for something they just love the artistic results.

In my experience worrying about technical things can handicaps one's artistic creativity.
[i]Bodies: 1x K-5IIs, 2x K-5, Sony TX-5, Nokia 808
Lenses: Pentax DA 10-17mm ED(IF) Fish Eye, Pentax DA 14mm f/2.8, Sigma 17-70mm f/2.8, Pentax-A 28mm f/2.8, Sigma 30mm F1.4 EX DC, Pentax-A 50mm f/1.2, Pentax-A 50mm f/1.4, Pentax-FA 50mm f/1.4, Pentax-A 50mm f/1.7, Pentax DA* 50-135mm f/2.8, Sigma 135-400mm APO DG, and more ..
Flash: AF-540FGZ, Vivitar 283
J2R
Posted 05/10/2013 - 10:17 Link
I've just got a GX-20 to replace my GX-10, but I haven't sold the GX-10 yet. I have the kit lenses for both. I'm thinking I should try and get some identical shots at 100 ISO from both cameras to compare side by side. I REALLY hope I don't end up preferring the GX-10 ones...
judderman62
Posted 05/10/2013 - 11:03 Link
Agree 110% with smeggy on this - technical stuff couldn't be more irrelevant to me.
- -
Mike

Pentax K5 / Pentax K5 11/ Pentax K200D / Canon Rebel T1 i / Canon 650D / Pentax MX-1 / Fuji XF1 /Fuji X 10 / Canon EOS-M / Canon G10/ Pentax Mz-7 x 2
stevejcoe
Posted 05/10/2013 - 11:08 Link
For those asking for a side by side comparison. A couple of shots taken this morning from my back garden, using FA 31Ltd @ F8 on K5 and K10.

A little sunshine between the clouds, ISO was set at 100. Colour balance was set at AWB. Metering by Pattern.

The images were imported into CS6 by ACR, no adjustments were made. Colour balance left as shot.

Images were resized to 900 pixels wide in CS6 (resampled, bicubic sharper) and saved at highest quality JPGs.

Comment Image


Comment Image



Link to full size JPGs

http://s198.photobucket.com/user/stevejcoe/library/Equipment/CMOS%20vesus%20CCD

Regards - Steve
Edited by stevejcoe: 05/10/2013 - 11:12
Algernon
Posted 05/10/2013 - 11:44 Link
The suns out on the 1st but not on the 2nd
So not a very useful comparison.

The K-3 is much better
Half Man... Half Pentax ... Half Cucumber

Pentax K-1 + K-5 and some other stuff

Algi
stevejcoe
Posted 05/10/2013 - 13:22 Link
There was only seconds between the two shots (K10 timestamp is out) , but I take your point. Anyway here is another attempt.

Comment Image


ACR imported with a colour temp of 5500 and tint of +9


Comment Image


ACR imported with a colour temp of 5050 and a tint of -3

Regards - Steve
sbrads
Posted 05/10/2013 - 13:34 Link
I'm guessing that the bricks and pebbles colour is more natural on the K-5 shot, it looks that way to me - only you would know though.

I find that brick/mortar colour is difficult to get right, much like skin tones.
Algernon
Posted 05/10/2013 - 14:24 Link
The K10D shot looks a bit cold and I've just had a go at
warming it up, but it wasn't very successful. The greens
went worse.

The K-5 greens are much better and improve with just a slight tweak
as shown below....


Comment Image


So another myth we can forget about These days I'm
not as fast as I used to be..... in all honesty I was never
as fast as I used to be

Edit: The forum software has reduced the width to 800w


-
Half Man... Half Pentax ... Half Cucumber

Pentax K-1 + K-5 and some other stuff

Algi
Edited by Algernon: 05/10/2013 - 14:26
stevejcoe
Posted 05/10/2013 - 16:14 Link
The K5 image (second image) comes closest to matching the brickwork and the scene as I looked at it. Not surprisingly it pulled in more detail from the sky.

Regards - Steve
J2R
Posted 05/10/2013 - 16:22 Link
OK, here's my lame go at the same thing. GX-10 top, GX-20 bottom, both with 18-55mm kit lens at 24mm, Av, f10, ISO 100, auto white balance. Exactly as Steve's: "The images were imported into CS6 by ACR, no adjustments were made. Colour balance left as shot.Images were resized to 900 pixels wide in CS6 (resampled, bicubic sharper) and saved at highest quality JPGs."

I'll leave it to others to determine any differences. I can tell, though, that the GX-20 has a tendency to introduce kittens into the picture...

First the GX-10:

Comment Image


Now the GX-20:

Comment Image


Maybe I need to link to larger images? I've never used Photobucket before, so maybe someone could briefly tell me what to do.
johnriley
Posted 05/10/2013 - 16:46 Link
I don't think the assertion re CCD vs CMOS is proved or disproved by any of the shots as they all look much of a muchness as presented. If anyone feels there is a difference in use, then they know what the answer is. Use the CCD cameras while they can. They should last for quite a while yet!
Best regards, John
J2R
Posted 05/10/2013 - 16:56 Link
johnriley wrote:
I don't think the assertion re CCD vs CMOS is proved or disproved by any of the shots as they all look much of a muchness as presented.

Certainly there's no magical quality which leaps out of the GX-10 shot (CCD sensor) for me, as against the GX-20 shot (CMOS sensor), even when viewing the RAW images. Maybe a hurriedly taken hand-held shot in dull light isn't enough to reveal anything, though?
johnriley
Posted 05/10/2013 - 17:37 Link
Quote:
Maybe a hurriedly taken hand-held shot in dull light isn't enough to reveal anything, though?

I think that's right. No doubt if there's a difference to be appreciated it will take working with both for a while to be able to take advantage of the possibilities fully.
Best regards, John
Algernon
Posted 05/10/2013 - 17:51 Link
Try lightening the shadows and you'll soon see how
poor ye olde sensors are
Half Man... Half Pentax ... Half Cucumber

Pentax K-1 + K-5 and some other stuff

Algi
Smeggypants
Posted 05/10/2013 - 22:38 - Helpful Comment Link
This may turn into another K-5II versus K-5IIs thread


Comment Image
[i]Bodies: 1x K-5IIs, 2x K-5, Sony TX-5, Nokia 808
Lenses: Pentax DA 10-17mm ED(IF) Fish Eye, Pentax DA 14mm f/2.8, Sigma 17-70mm f/2.8, Pentax-A 28mm f/2.8, Sigma 30mm F1.4 EX DC, Pentax-A 50mm f/1.2, Pentax-A 50mm f/1.4, Pentax-FA 50mm f/1.4, Pentax-A 50mm f/1.7, Pentax DA* 50-135mm f/2.8, Sigma 135-400mm APO DG, and more ..
Flash: AF-540FGZ, Vivitar 283

Add Comment

To leave a comment - Log in to Pentax User or create a new account.