advice needed


jacqui2

Link Posted 08/04/2012 - 11:25
Hi, I recently bought a camera privately through a forum for my son (not this one ) and when I received the camera, as I was unpacking it the pop up flash got knocked back slightly and caused it not to work, Im guessing that it may have pulled one of the connecting wires loose. Ok, my fault, I thought. But then discovered from the seller that, actually the reason it probably happened is because he apparently sent it off to fuji to get a new eyepiece and when they returned it, they had left the flash hinges off, therefore, in the sellers own words, making the flash weaker and allowing this to happen. This was not mentioned at all when he described the camera to me, just that it was in excellent condition, no mention of a fault at all. When I approached him about getting a refund, he said, although he wouldn't mind giving a refund, he would prefer to get in touch with fuji and find out about the cost of repair and how long it would take first. I dont really feel it is fair that I bought a camera in good faith described in excellent condition with no mention of a fault, and then have to wait around to find out about repair costs/times etc. I realise that the wire was pulled by me when unpacking, but this would not have been possible if the flash did not have the hinges missing as they keep the flash from going back any further. I fully believe when I sell something that I describe everything about it including any faults in detail, no matter how small or large. Where do I stand with this? anyone any ideas? thanks, jacqui.
jacqui

davidstorm

Link Posted 08/04/2012 - 11:27
Hi Jacqui

If you have bought it privately, unfortunately you have absolutely no rights to force the seller to refund, repair, replace or anything else. Your only hope is that the seller shows some goodwill.

Sorry if this is bad news, but that is the legal position.

Regards
David
My Website http://imagesbydavidstorm.foliopic.com

Flickr

Some cameras, some lenses, some bits 'n' bobs

johnriley

Link Posted 08/04/2012 - 11:28
Private sales are not subject to the same legalities as sales from dealers, so it really is Caveat Emptor. Your final recourse would probably be the small claims court, which is messy.

I would simply say that it wasn't as described, so you would like a refund. If the seller is a genuine person then no doubt that is what will happen. If you never used flash and it didn't matter to you, then a part refund would be a possibility, but only if that's what you wanted.
Best regards, John

obione

Link Posted 08/04/2012 - 11:51
Excellent condition (almost new)
means that the item looks new, is in excellent working condition.
(No Faults)

Yours is fair condition then...
k-5, K-5ii,60-250 f4, 50 f1.4 af,17-70 f4, 100mm macro wr,siggy 10-20 siggy 100-300f4
Last Edited by obione on 08/04/2012 - 11:52

jacqui2

Link Posted 08/04/2012 - 11:58
Hi, thanks for all your replies. Yes, if he had mentioned the fault in the description then I could have considered the camera knowing about the fault, but I certainly wouldn't have paid full price for it.
jacqui
Last Edited by jacqui2 on 08/04/2012 - 11:58

womble

Link Posted 08/04/2012 - 13:04
davidstorm wrote:
Hi Jacqui

If you have bought it privately, unfortunately you have absolutely no rights to force the seller to refund, repair, replace or anything else. Your only hope is that the seller shows some goodwill.

Sorry if this is bad news, but that is the legal position.

Regards
David

This simply isn't true. A commercial sale (e.g., from a shop) requires the item to be "fit for purpose." A private sale requires the item to be "as described". If it isn't "as described" the seller is legally obliged to take the item back and issue a refund. If they refuse then I'm afraid the small claims court is the way to go.

I know this as I was sold a camera "in excellent condition" a while back which was so filthy and battered it could not be considered as being in excellent condition by any sane person. Initially, the vendor refused to take it back as he said he didn't realise I was "a collector" and had sold the camera for use (this despite the fact the lens fell off every time you tried to focus it). I happen to have a good friend who is a Trading Standards Officer who gave me the advice. I contacted the vendor and told him I had taken advice and had downloaded the small claims court paperwork which I would submit if he didn't offer a refund. Needless to say I got my money back and returned the piece of junk to him.

I suggest that you contact the vendor and state quite clearly that you are not happy that the item is "as described" and would like to return it and obtain a refund.

Best wishes, Kris.
Kris Lockyear
It is an illusion that photos are made with the camera… they are made with the eye, heart and head. Henri Cartier-Bresson
Lots of film bodies, a couple of digital ones, too many lenses (mainly older glass) and a Horseman LE 5x4.

My website

jacqui2

Link Posted 08/04/2012 - 13:10
Ok, thanks, I have, this morning, contacted him, saying pretty much that, stating that the item was described as excellent condition and there was no mention of the fault. I haven't had a reply yet, so we will wait and see, thankyou all for your advice and I will let you know as soon as I hear, thanks again
jacqui

George Lazarette

Link Posted 08/04/2012 - 14:28
womble wrote:
davidstorm wrote:
Hi Jacqui

If you have bought it privately, unfortunately you have absolutely no rights to force the seller to refund, repair, replace or anything else. Your only hope is that the seller shows some goodwill.

Sorry if this is bad news, but that is the legal position.

Regards
David

This simply isn't true. A commercial sale (e.g., from a shop) requires the item to be "fit for purpose." A private sale requires the item to be "as described". If it isn't "as described" the seller is legally obliged to take the item back and issue a refund. If they refuse then I'm afraid the small claims court is the way to go.

I know this as I was sold a camera "in excellent condition" a while back which was so filthy and battered it could not be considered as being in excellent condition by any sane person. Initially, the vendor refused to take it back as he said he didn't realise I was "a collector" and had sold the camera for use (this despite the fact the lens fell off every time you tried to focus it). I happen to have a good friend who is a Trading Standards Officer who gave me the advice. I contacted the vendor and told him I had taken advice and had downloaded the small claims court paperwork which I would submit if he didn't offer a refund. Needless to say I got my money back and returned the piece of junk to him.

I suggest that you contact the vendor and state quite clearly that you are not happy that the item is "as described" and would like to return it and obtain a refund.

Best wishes, Kris.

This is correct.

David, you really should refrain from pontificating on subjects you know nothing about.

Contracts for the sale of goods have been enforceable under English Common Law for centuries, irrespective of the status of the parties.

G
Keywords: Charming, polite, and generally agreeable.

johnriley

Link Posted 08/04/2012 - 14:37
Don't be too harsh George, in practice most people won't resort to the law for such matters, so in effect it makes private sales more risky.

At least with a dealer there are Trading Standards to refer to and it's rarely necessary.
Best regards, John

jacqui2

Link Posted 08/04/2012 - 15:15
Hi, just received a reply, (copy and pasted):

Hi Jacqui,
I would strongly suggest you do not return the camera until I have heard back from Fuji. There are a few points we need to clear up, firstly, Regarding the hinges. The hinges are not faulty and have never given me cause for concern.
It was my assumption that the flash unit should have been fitted with an
arrest strap, which I had seen fitted to other cameras on the Fuji product site. I need to confirm with Fuji that these were actually even supposed to be fitted to this model. I have owned this camera for over two years and in that time it has been faultless in it's operation and, in my opinion, that was the condition in which I sold it. Depending on the response from Fuji, this may conclude that, unfortunately, you alone are responsible for the damage.
I will let you know as soon as I've heard from Fuji and I will endeavour to bring this to an amicable conclusion.
Regards,

*But, on his first message to me (before this one) he states:

Yes, it sounds like a loose wire. I think I may know why this happened. Last year the rubber eye piece around the viewfinder came off, so I contacted Fuji and they repaired it for free. However instead of just replacing the rubber eyepiece they replaced the entire top section of the camera. When I received the camera back I noticed they never put the hinges back on the flash unit which meant the flash raised higher than normal. You may be able to see a little notch either side of the flash where they are supposed to go. Without these I would imagine the flash isn't as strong as there's nothing from stopping it being pulled back.
If you want I will contact Fuji, explain the situation and see if they have any ideas.

Thanks,

What do you think? I really hate all this thanks.
jacqui

johnriley

Link Posted 08/04/2012 - 15:25
It depends how much you paid. Unfortunately, you have also admitted some degree of fault. On that basis, a price reduction might be a compromise, but then the idea that Fuji repaired it but didn't put all the parts back is a bit obscure, so there's room for doubt there.

Personally, I would either accept part of the blame and go for a partial refund, or pursue the other party strongly for a refund. If you do send it back it should be by Special delivery to ensure you have proof and the appropriate level of insurance. Even that of course is a cost.

So it does all depend on the costings of the various options.

Don't forget you also need to leave feedback wherever you bought it from, but it goes without saying this should be carefully factual, not accusing.
Best regards, John

pentaxian450

Link Posted 08/04/2012 - 15:26
The first message he sent clearly shows he knew about the condition, so he should accept to take the camera back and refund you, regardless of Fuji's answer.

The camera clearly wasn't as stated in the ad, and he knew about it.
Yves (another one of those crazy Canucks)

jacqui2

Link Posted 08/04/2012 - 15:38
pentaxian450 wrote:
The first message he sent clearly shows he knew about the condition, so he should accept to take the camera back and refund you, regardless of Fuji's answer.

The camera clearly wasn't as stated in the ad, and he knew about it.

Yes I have to agree, and yes the flash being pushed back too far was done by me, but only as a result of the supports not being there, which allowed this to happen. If I had been told about the fault before buying, I probably wouldn't have bought it, but even if I had it would have had to have been at a reduced price and I would have been aware of the problem and that the flash was particularly weak. I have replied basically stating all this, so we will see what he says. thanks everyone for your help.
jacqui

jacqui2

Link Posted 08/04/2012 - 16:19
Hi, I haven't heard back yet, but I am thinking of sending this message as a way of resolving this situation amicably:

Hi, Following my last message, I really dont want any animosity between us and I can understand that you feel unhappy about the fact that the flash was working when you sent the item, but it doesn't alter the fact that the item was not as described when sold to me and the fault of the missing flash supports was the reason that the flash was so easily pushed back. I think Fuji should be responsible for the fault, and I think that they should repair it free for you, but feel that this is for you to pursue. But I would be prepared to accept the refund minus, say, 10% for the fact that the flash is now not working, although I do have to stress that I still feel that this is solely down to the lack of flash supports, and not being told about this in the description, and I do feel that you have to accept that not disclosing a fault (missing supports, making flash weak) in the description of an item for sale is your responsibility. This means that I would receive back £20 less than I paid for the item + I would have the cost of postage back to you, which I think is a very fair and generous offer considering I bought an item in good faith based on the description that it was in 'excellent condition' with no faults. This would mean a refund of £180.00 to paypal, immediately on receipt of the item. Please let me know, regards, jacqui.

What do you think? thanks.
jacqui

johnriley

Link Posted 08/04/2012 - 16:39
Paypal? That could change matters. If you paid by PayPal, you might well be able to do a complaint via them.
Best regards, John
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