About filters system

Hi all!

Hoping this is the correct section,
I have got:
- 12-24 diameter 77 mm
- 17-70 diameter 72 mm
- 55-300 diameter 58 mm
- 50 - diameter should be 49mm

I would like to buy a ND and a circular polarizer, which system should I look for, to be able to use the same filter on more lenses (both for handiness and cost?:

1- Cokin system

2- Ken Rockwell's suggestion:"Don't even think about using more than one filter size. It will drive you insane.
Honestly, if you are serious about photography you will eventually wind up buying the bigger filters, so if you start there you won't have to throw away all the smaller ones.
I suggest using step-up rings and bringing all your smaller lenses up to the largest common size. For Nikon and Canon that would be 77mm.
For instance, instead of using 62mm filters on your 20mm f/2.8 AF or 72mm filters on your 28mm f/1.4D AF, just step them up to 77mm and never look back. Do you really want to buy and carry an additional dozen smaller filters instead of just a couple of step up rings?
This saves a lot of fiddling when you are out shooting and trying to swap filters around.
I suggest B+W brand German step up rings because they cost about the same as the crappy Japanese aluminum ones. They don't get stuck and have nice knurling to make them easy to grasp. They cost me about $12 - 20 each here. Big deal.
If you use these stepping rings you probably won't be able to use a standard hood. I never use hoods so I don't worry. Lens coatings have made hoods obsolete for decades, except as prophylaxis (protection). Your hand provides much better shielding against the sun."

-any other ideas?

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I suppose the common use is for wideangle lenses
(even if Ken Rockwell says:"Avoid polarizers on wide-angle lenses You'll get weird effects with a polarizer on any ultra-wide lens. Linear and circular polarizers give the same weird results on skies.
The weird results on ultra-wide lenses are because the polarization of the sky varies from one end of the sky to the other. Polarization of the sky is maximum at 90 degrees from the sun, and none at the sun and 180 degrees from it. This is no issue with a tele lens, however with a super wide you are sweeping such a broad expanse that the polarizing effect will vary greatly across the sky. You often get a dark area in the sky, which usually looks nasty. I rarely use polarizers with ultra wide lenses.
If your polarizer is thick (as many are due to the rotating mount) you may be getting mechanical vignetting in the corners, too".

I knew about the vignetting, but also that effect?

Thank you

You know how strange your comment read right?

You got it all pretty right.
I'm only very questionable about the quality of the cokin filters.
I've almost all my screw-in filters are B+W but they are a lot better then cokin so i'm reluctant to buy a pol for it. There is a big price different of course.

Sorry Stefan, I'm Italian, can't understand what exactly you mean!

are the less expensive themselves or you mean the overall system?

I'm Dutch so that even things out

I've orded a B+W Käsemann Polarizing MRC Filter and it was €125
A cokin P Polarizing filter is €39 so you can't expect that they are same quality right. Atleast I hope so...

I've the Cokin Z-pro, bought it as an set with 3 GND-filters since for that such system has more possibilities. Even the Z-Pro filters have a bit of apurple cast, not so pleasant I must say.
With the Z-pro you can also mount the better quality lee filters, schneiders and tiffen. Still need to look at some of those to see how good they are.
Schneiders are mighty expensive but I believe that the others are a bit cheaper.

You are right, much more expensive, they are a quarter the cost of a DA 12-24!

So is it better to buy the 77mm + step up rings? Or do I risk vignetting when I use it with the 17-70?

Honestly €125 is not a small amount, so the quality should be very good!
As to the HOya, so you advise against the normal one against the PRO1
On Amazon the cost is one third!
I can't understand the difference with this this?

Thank you for your help

EDIT: is that true that Kenko are "the same filter as Hoya in different package and much cheaper"?

the step up run are quite slim and you go from 77mm to 72mm so don't think it's a problem but you do need I believe a slim filter for the 12-24.

Cokin use an holder with square filter and the pol is round so that you can turn it in the holder.
Those you show me (hoya) are screw in filters.
The last one is the same or almost the same as the first one, screw-in.

I have the Cokin P system which I can use on my 16-45 and 50-200.
I can't use it on my Bigma though because of the huge diameter of the front element. P-series go to 82mm and the Bigma is 86mm.
The Cokin filters perform really well allthough the ND filters can give a bit of a colour cast when used on a digital camera. This is however easily corrected on photoshop or even before that in the RAW converter.

Remco do you know how wide the Cokin-P goes.
I think he needs an Z-Pro or an wide angle holder for the 12-24 right?

Stefan, you are right.

Z-pro is for 20mm (35mm) onwards (13mm for digital)
The P is for 28mm (35mm) onwards (19mm for digital but I haven't seen problems at 16mm with my 16-45)

/Remco

[edit]
There is even an X-pro holder which is for 15mm (35mm) onwards so this works on focal lengths from 10mm onwards on digital.
Allthough the price increase is HUGE when you go to a bigger size!
[/edit]

Quick answer: Z-Pro works just fine for the 12-24.
I have the Lee holder + Cokin Z-Pro ND grads. Very nice.

I can make the P size work with almost no vignetting by hacking a Cokin P holder - cutting it down to one slot and filing out the inside rim If I want to travel light that's what I use. You can also just get the polariser to work.

Matt

A point about the step-up rings, you will struggle to fit them inside the flare hood.
I bought a 77mm Kood CPL, quite a bit cheaper than the entry level Hoya and would appear better quality too.
As for ND's and Grad's, a square filter system is the way to go.

Thank you a lot guys, just a clarification because I'm a bit confused.
So are you suggesting me to get a Cokin system: Z pro holder (or Lee) and all filters Cokins Z-Pro.

or a 77mm Hoya CPL pro1?

Will I use CPL, ND and later graduates most likely on 12-24 and 17-70 only, won't I?

Thanks!

Well it depends, I use ND or grad filters mostly for landscape photography to prevent blowing highlights in the sky.
The ND's are allso very usefull to get nice shots of waterfalls or streams.
I use them on my 16-45 and on my 50-200.
When I win the lottery I will buy some for my Bigma as well

For landscapes a square filter system is the best option, you can easely use more filters and with GND you can move the transsiction so that it fits your image nicely.
With screw-in filters for example it's always fixed at one point most of the time in the middle.

If you're simply going to shoot.. so the faster photogaphy so to say without a tripod and such I prefer the screw in filters.
I mostly only use a pol but I do have a 4ND, almost never used it though.
Also for macro I use a pol and a square filter system is to big for that so get a screw-in for that aswell.

When I need a pol and the GND filters I simply screw the cokin system onto the pol filter, it works for me. You need two hands to controll it though so a tripod is almost a must then.

The 17-70 is probable your most used lens so I would get a pol screw-in filter for that one and for the rest a square filter system would be surely good enough. For the 12-24 a real landscape lens I would go for a square filter system. It really depends on what you want to do with your other lenses.

btw the filter for the DA17-70 is 67mm or is it another brand?
pentax often use 77mm, 67mm and 49mm. So if you get a filter for those and maybe a 58mm you can cover all the pentax lenses and the odd ones with step down rings.
The limiteds and macro's are 49mm so if you want to get one of those 49mm filter are quite cheap so get them on that size instead of a stepdown ring.

I have the
Pentax -12-24 diameter 77 mm
Pentax - 17-70 diameter 67 mm
Sigma - 70-300 diameter 58 mm
Sigma- 50 - diameter 55mm

I use cokin P filter system with the wide angle filter attachment for the 12-24. You can only use one filter in the holder and no screw type filters on the front either (such as a UV filter), with this I get no vignetting. If you have a UV filter on the lens first you get vignetting at the widest angle.
On the 17-70 and above I use the standard P holder. I do get some vignetting at 17mm, but very slight and at this I will switch to the 12-24.

I have purchased 4 holders and just keep the corresponding attachment on them to save swopping around.

I know there are better systems out there, but for what I use them for this is good enough for me.

Hope that helps.