About filters system

Thank you for your help and sorry for the delay...
the game is complicated, I still have some questions

to sum up, everyone suggests a square system for ND filters, possibly Z-pro.

The difference in price between Z-pro and P is huge.
Z pro:
kit (holder+ gnd2,nd4,nd about £135
single GND's and ND's about £36/50

p:
kit (holder+ nd2,nd4,nd about £52
single GND's and ND's about £14/16

1-I would use the Z pro "only" on the DA 12-24. Is it worth it to spend that much? also because all Z-pro filters will cost much more. What is the disadvantages in using the series P? the vignetting?

2-if I decide to buy just one ND, which one should I go for? the nd4?
3-I had not realized that ND are different from GND, I'm more fascinated from the first one, many of you are mentioned the GND. DO you use them more often?


don't you find any vignetting on the 12-24?


I have a Sigma 17-70, that explains the 72mm.
Stefan, I can't understand why a pol screw filter just for the 17-70?
could it be a good option screw filters (CPL and ND) for the 12-24 and Cokin P system to be used on 17-70 and the rest of my lenses?

the circular polarizer for Cokin is very expensive (£200)
with those money I can buy Hoya Pro1 in 2 different sizes!

The subject is very complicated,at least for me

I got my Z-PRO set (holder gnd2, gnd4, gnd8 ) for €60... i might ask them if they ship to the uk.

GND filters are great for landscapes. most of the time, you're sky is to bright on photos and with a GND filter you darken only the sky.
I use GND filters a lot when doing landscapes. That's why I bought a cokin since with screw in filters you don't have the ability to change the horizon. That's also the only way I use Cokin.
I would purely get a cokin GND just for the 12-24 since that's a very nice landscape lens.

If you just want to use ND simply by screw-in they aren't expensive.
I've one ND4 but hardly ever used it.

About just a screw-in POL for the 17-70.
A POL filter i just a very nice filter to have on your lens almost all of the time, that's why I only buy high quality, they hard come off of it.
POL increase saturation and makes the sky bluer because it removes the haze.
I just don't find it handy to have the cokin holder on my lens all the time, a screw-in filter is no problem.

Why do you want to have ND btw, what do you hope you want to archive with them? sometimes there are tricks so that you don't need an ND.

I use the Cokin P filters on my 12-24 and there is very slight vignetting from 12-14mm but nothing from 15-24mm. Cokin make a special slim holder which I use on the 12-24 (only has one slot) whereas I use a regular three-slot holder on my other lenses.

I would appreciate that! I did a research among amazon,warehouse,ebay, those are the prices I found.

Now understand why definitely square system for landscapes and need nd2,4 and 8.
Do I need 2 hands if I use CPL and cokin togeteher?

Aren't the ND to create blurring effect on the water?
sorry... No more question!

which one do you mean exactly?
thanks

The cokin make a wide angle filter holder for the P range, which is the one I use on the 12-24. Providing you have this attached directly to the front of the lens (i.e no screw in filters first) then you do not get any vignetting, but you are limited to the use of just one filter. So you could not stack a ND filter with a grad filter for example.

The best prices I found were actually from SpeedGraphic. I bought a Cokin P ND Graduated Kit for £39.95 (three grades of Grad ND filters plus a regular 3 slot holder) and a Cokin P Wide-Angle Holder for £9.90 at the same time. I then bought Kood adapter rings for each size of lens from 7dayshop (prices from £2.99 - £3.39 each) as they were cheaper than the genuine Cokin ones.

As Jon says above, I too only use the P filters directly on the 12-24, ie with no other filters attached.

Thank you that is very very helpful!! I think I will get those, especially if both of you are using that system on the 12-24.

Just a curiosity, the difference in price between the P and Zpro filters. Is due only to dimensions or to the quality?

While I could go for the screw-in CPL or even Cokin if I find them at a reasonable price

What the website mean?
"Allows use on 19mm wide-angle lens. Has polariser and 1 other filter slot. Requires adaptor ring to mount on a lens"

thank you guys

I'm not sure what they're referring to on the website but the "slim" holder only has one slot.

The price difference between the P and Z-Pro systems is partly down to size but also because of economies of scale: Cokin will produce thousands of P filters and kits for every hundred Z-Pro kits so there is a difference in costs for manufacture, distribution, etc. As far as I know the quality is the same with both systems.

The quote from Cokin regarding 19mm lenses is assuming the lens is used on a 35mm camera. At 12mm the 12-24 is about the same angle of view as a 18mm lens on film, hence a very slight vignetting at this widest point that has disappeared by 14mm.

As for a CPL, I wouldn't bother with one for the 12-24. For a CPL to work properly it needs to be at 90 degrees to the light source (the Sun usually). At 12mm you will have an angle of view greater than 90 degrees so the effects of a CPL will never be even across the frame and your skies will have different colours on one side compared to the other. The only filters I ever use on the 12-24 are ND Grads (which are very useful!), although I have a couple of smaller screw-in CPLs for my longer lenses.

Hope that helps!

Sorry Hefty the Z-pro use better quality filters out from the Pro range, the Z-pro and X-pro use the same glass but difference size.
With the P filter you get more colour cast and the likes.

ND filters are there to increase the shutterspeed but somethimes you can easily use an higher f/number to bring up shutterspeed or else a single screw-in ND4 filter will help you enough.
Another option with waterfalls is to make several shots and merge them together, the water will be blurred aswell then... at least I think that will work

I'll go to the shop tomorrow since they have called me, I might finally have my kasemann CPL now *sighs* they needed to special order that.

@Hefty were do you use our ND for, I only used my twice... so to behonest a waste of money in my case
I do use GND for landscapes and such.

Then I'll stand corrected

I don't use straight ND filters (I have a couple that have been thrown in with old cameras and lenses that I've bought but never felt the need for them), only graduated ones which I use for balancing the sky in landscapes. The three GNDs in the Cokin P kit plus a couple of Hoya CPLs are all I ever use with digital, however, I've still got a bag full of various colour and effect filters that get used when I shoot the odd film.

definetely helpful!

so there is a little bit of vignetting between 12 and 14?

sorry, too complex concept for me!

I never saw them, but I do suspect there is a difference in quality beteween P and Z series due to the huge difference in price.

If I buy now the P series, and then enjoy them...can I use the holder for better quality filter (Lee? others?)or have I to buy the Z pro holder?
and can I use the same holder it for a screw filter?
(I read both somewhere in the post but can't find anymore!)

I'm not completely sure that the effect is the same, to me the idea is more similar to applying an exposure compensation - same DOF but longer shutter time
I think that works, but I do not like a lot the post production!

Yes sorry you said ND grad... I've the same filters that you've then
Cokin have a coloured POL and i'm quite curious to try that one out sometimes.


When you use an higher F/number the hole in the lens gets smaller so letting less light through. You increase exposure time with that but the other effect is that you depth of field gets very big. With landscape shots that's not really a problem I believe and to buy a cokin system just for the ND isn't worth it in my eyes.
Simply get one ND8 screw-in with stepdown rings and you're done for £70.
It's easier to fit in the bag and I believe that the quality of the filter is better.

Also like you said about post production, how many time will you photograph a waterfall? and is it worth spending money on that?

Although getting a Cokin GND set would be a good option. That's great to use for landscapes and buy a ND4 and/only a ND8 separate for it.
That's the way I should do it and not get the ND set

I believe that ND8 is strong enough or even a tiny bit too strong but you can use iso200 and you're fine then.

This the effect of the POL


You see that the sky on the left is dark then on the right and the wider you lens is the more stronger that effect would be.

These are GND filters and the effect they give.


Since you darken the light of the sky, it's closer to the light of the ground. You can therefor better balance the both without one being to dark or to bright.

Really thank you all and Stefan particularly.
I had read again the post and you repeated me some things 2 or 3 times without losing your temperance!
sorry but the subject is new and I'm learning it now!

To summarize:
A) I'll get the Cokin P system + grad ND kit (£40) I would be willing to spend something more for the Z-pro to get better quality and avoid the vignetting, but the cheapest I found (£135@Warehouse) looks to me too much at the moment, maybe because I have not experience on those yet.
B) I'll add a Cokin ND4 or ND8. (I can't choose!)
C) I'll buy a screw-in circular polarizer. I didn't understand why technically, but it looks useless for the 12-24


So I have two options for the CPL:
1)buy a 77 mm screw in CPL plus step up for 17-70 and 55-300
2)buy a circular polarizer Cokin (£56)
Which option is practically better?

Okay a simple test
Tell me which one you find better.

You want a macro so










if you find the bottom images the best then you like the effect of a polarizer so you probable use it frequently maybe even almost always just like me.
so do you think it's handy to have a Cokin system on your lens all the time or a screw-in?