Thanks John.

I think you may be right.

Much as I admire the K-r it is not for me, and the K-7 would not give me much more than the K20D.
The K-r does not have one important feature that I find a boon on my K20D (and K10D come to think of it) and is the TAv mode.
Any future Pentax body I get must have this as it is probably the best feature of ANY DSLR, not least Pentax.

So, in reality is to save up and get the K-5

Taking into consideration the VAT increase in the new year, and the current price of the K-5, would the K-7 be an alternative choice?

I ask, as, although I love my K20D, it does have some shortfalls compared to the two newer models. I won't consider the K-x and K-r as I do want the three things that the K20D has, that the x and r does not. ie sealing, twin dials and TAv mode..

The major downfalls of the K20D over the K-7 and K-5 are metering (it does not like major differences between light and dark and it fools the metering. More to do with the old PRIME and 16 segment rather than the 77 segment of the newer models.
The FPS is not good, as is the slow AF.

However with the newer models, what more would I get? (well between some and a lot....)

So, the subject of this topic. K-7 or K-5

K-7
A Lot cheaper than the K-5 (the K-5 is 65% more)
Same body as K-5
quieter shutter over the K20D
more FPS
better metering

Downsides
Same sensor as K20D. same ISO range as K20D. Same sensor problems as K20D
Would the IQ be that much better than the K20D?
Alleged problems with iq and vibration

K-5
More MP, although not important as IQ is better, more important is its light performance which is "big boy" slaying.
Better metering than the K-7
more FPS
fastest AF of all Pentax bodies.

Downsides
A lot more than the K-7, VAT increase won't help.

I really want a K-5 but in the cold light of day, it is not cheap, and not likely to be for the forseeable. However, if it can slay the EOS 5D and D700 in recent tests, it is probably worth serious consideration.

So, I suppose, the real question is, is the K-7 a considerably better performer over the K20D, or not? And being a K20D owner, is it best to hold back as long as possible and forget the K-7 and get the K-5 in the spring so long as the price gets much better (we hope)

What do you think?

Now we have the 35mm F2.4 which is getting good reviews (not least from me), what other cheap(ish) lenses would we like to see from Pentax?
I will start

28mm F2-2.4. Yes I know it will be more expensive to produce a 28mm that is faster than F2.8, however as it is the EFOV of 42mm, it is a close to the naked eye as you can get on an APS-C sensor, and probably worth the extra for that 1/2-1 stop.
50mm F1.7. Why not? the FA 1.7 was good, so why not another?
90mm F2.8. Nice focal length and would give the EFOV of a 135mm. Would be quite cheap too.
135mm F3.5. Great focal length, but for cheapness would have to be F3.5 (like the budget lenses of old, and to not step on the 50-135 F2.8 toes) Would have to have a 135mm F2 DFA* too, but that is another subject.
finally
200mm F4-F4.5, would be lighter and cheaper than the DA* F2.8, for those on a budget.

What do others think?

It's funny,but I have the same Tak 135mm f2.5 as well, and I quite like it. Maybe I have been lucky and have a good one.

Here is another example from yesterday.
PP in Photoshop for a high key monochrome.
I do love this lens and I have only had it a week.
[img]http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5203/5239623804_35e764ea09.jpg" class="comment_image" />

Bridge at Bramhall Park by Offertonhatter, on Flickr[/img]

I don't know if the OP does this for theatre work, but I always put my cameras in TAv mode, put it at 1/80 - 1/100 sec and F2.8, and let the camera set the ISO. Always works, and if you have a camera from the K20D onwards (K-7 K-5, or even the K10D at a pinch) most photos up to ISO2500 are very useable (except the K10D of course...LOL) and even at a pinch ISO3200 if small prints are required. Most of mine go onto a CD for the cast and keep them at 1800px at the long end should they wish to print them.

Just about all old Primes can be great with digital. You may not get the sharpness, resolution or contrast as modern digital designed aspherical lenses, but don't let that put you off. Old lenses can, and are, great fun to use. They give you a different effect that you could not get with modern glass. There are people out there who are using 1930's Leica lenses (with adapter) on micro 4/3rds cameras and getting wonderful results.

As for the K-mount takumar, yes they don't have multi coating, but again they can be great fun to use. I have the 135mm f2.5 and I love it for certain things.

Best thing with photography is to have fun and experiment. If you buy and old lens for £20 and find it is not what you want, you can sell it again for £20.

Hope this helps.

Sigma 24-70mm is excellent but heavy. I have one and Love it.

However, it does not go wide enough at times, hence why I got the 16-45mm F4 for out and about.

I have heard that the Tamron is excellent and a lot lighter than the 24-70.
Depends on what you want to use it for. Portraits and closer work, the sigma is the one, more general use, then the Tamron could by the one to get.

In reality I would keep the Tamron, even though you are going to get the 50-135.

Although you will have overlap, you will have different lenses for different circumstances.

The 50-135 will be perfect for studio and theatre, the 70-200 would in my opinion be better when you are out in the field so the speak, where that extra reach will come in more useful. Down the line if you sell the Tamron, you will think that I need more reach and end up paying for a DA* 200mm......

Sell one of your K20D's and the K100 to help pay for the K-5, so you end up with the perfect pair of K20D and K-5 to use.

Hope this helps.

Two bodies is a good idea from gareth.
The show I did last weekend I had my K10D with my Sigma 24-70mm on it and my K20D had my 50-135 on. Plus when it got to the curtain call I put my 10-20 on the K10D so that I could get the whole stage with cast on it, yet still had the K20D and 50-135 for individual bows. If you can't stretch to a K-5 then the K-7 or even K-r will still be up to the task of second body for shows.