I've just had a play about with the FA 50mm F1.7 on the camera and the flash in P-TTL mode. The shots I'm getting all seem useable however there does seem to be a slightly surprising amount of variation between exposures e.g. when shooting the same scene at a few different aperture settings (but with the subject well within flash range for any of the apertures used) - certainly more so that I've seen with TTL and the DS.

I can't think that I've ever noticed any particular weaknesses in over a decade of using Pentax TTL - and so far I haven't found anything about P-TTL that I could point at and say that it does better than TTL did.

My experience of the DS and AF400FTZ was very good, so I can't see why TTL wouldn't have been viable with the K10D. One of big plus points of the Pentax system has always been backwards/forwards compatibility so it's a real shame (and a real annoyance) that a flashgun that cost me a lot of cash is now almost useless.

The AF360FGZ seems a nice unit although it would be nicer if it swivelled as well as tilted. I do like that it has an A mode though as that at least means my older lenses can be used with it on the K10D.

I'm not by any means saying that P-TTL is a dud, just that in practice I can't see any advantages to it that make up for my AF400FTZ now being an expensive paperweight, or make up for the lessened functionality it gives with older lenses...

I recently added an AF-360FGZ to my system to resolve problems caused in my system by the lack of TTL capability with the K10D, however while it's a nice flash it has left me rather unconvinced about the point of P-TTL.

Before I'd got the K10D I'd been using the DS with my old AF400FTZ with no problem and was getting great results, including using TTL with an old K-mount (non-A) Vivitar 55mm macro lens. With the K10D the AF400FTZ was more or less defunct, however my even older AF200S was at least useable.

With the AF360FGZ & K10D the wireless capability is of some use, however the limitations with older lenses aren't so good - no wireless (the option isn't available to select with the old Vivitar fitted) & no P-TTL. The combination works fine in A mode (with the camera set to M or X) but that's not as useful with macro as TTL was on the DS (which made macro with flash a simple point and shoot process).

If there was one thing I could change about the K10D it'd be to add the same TTL capability as the DS has. I'm not entirely sure what advantages P-TTL has but so far I've seen no sign of it's being a better performer than TTL was anyway.

Well if you fancy posting me your 77mm George...

Or maybe next time I'm in the IOM (we do some work for IOM Government) I'll bring my cameras instead of my CBR600.

There's a guy on pbase (http://www.pbase.com/carpents) who seems to have both (amongst a pretty decent lens collection by the looks of things) - he refers to the FA* 85mm F1.4 as "then best autofocus lens ever made"...

Does any poster in Scotland have a 77mm "limited" that we could compare with my 85mm "unlimited"?

Aye, no doubt the 77mm F1.8 is a great lens if you can't find or afford an FA* 85mm F1.4

I've never used a Distagon but I did used to have a Contax G1 system with Carl Zeiss lenses - 28mm F2.8 Biogon T*, 45mm F2 Planar T* & 90mm F2.8 Sonnar T*. The lenses were very good indeed but not, in my experience, any better than the FA* lenses I also had at the same time. I bought it to be a lightweight, compact and high-quality set-up but found I didn't use it much, favouring an MZ5 with 24mm F2 and 85mm F1.4 FA* lenses - the Pentax lenses were faster and focused closer and the SLR comprehensively outperformed the rangefinder in focus performance and metering accuracy. Eventually I sold it via Ebay in the UK for more than I'd paid for the set-up in Hong Kong.

If you're thinking of the Vivitar then I used to have one of those (the 19mm F3.8 that is) - no idea if it was really a 19mm or a 20mm but one thing I do know - F3.8 or F4 would be of little relevance as it was prone to a lot of vignetting and therefore (IMHO) wasn't usable until about F8 anyway!

I've seen a few FA* 24's (worldwide) sold via Ebay over the last year or two (including my own) and they're usually not stupidly expensive - under £300 anyway. I think I've only seen one FA* 85 1.4 being sold in that period though (two now as I've just found one on US Ebay!) and while I don't remember what it sold for I remember it as being a lot.

The latest FA* 85mm F1.4 on US Ebay has a buy-it-now on Ebay of nearly $1200 (£600) - I only paid $770 new for mine!

There is a SMC-A 24mm F2.8 listed in one of the US Ebay webshops at the moment but it's at a "buy it now" of nearly £140 even before postage. There are a couple of SMC-M 85mm F2's listed.

The problem with getting 24 and 85mm AF primes in Pentax fit is that Pentax only ever made the fast & expensive FA* versions at those focal lengths and therefore not that many would have been sold. If there had been "normal" FA 24mm F2.8 and FA 85mm F2 lenses at about half the price of the FA* lenses I'm sure there would be a lot more out there.

When I go back to film I take a lot fewer shots and it'll also tend to be a theme in mind. Last time I took the Z1p (out I got 6 decent (for me!) shots from one 24 exposure roll of B&W which I was quite pleased with: http://www.pbase.com/niblue/blackness

Unfortunately it's quite a palaver getting the shots from the film and onto my computer because my scsi Minolta film scanner doesn't work on Windows XP (or any other recent operating system for that matter) so I have an old NT machine I scan onto the transfer the files onto my main PC for manipulation etc.