Sounds good Looking forward to seeing some shots nearer Christmas!

Thats right - just because the noise reduction had some effect on our Penguin head here doesn't automatically mean that it is only noise.

I'm not sure really why people refuse to see these particular artifacts as moire. Its not unexpected, given the nature of the surface texture here, and the fact there is no aa filter or simulator active.

Colour noise is related to larger spans of single tonal areas (like the 'blacks'), and doesn't stop just because the surface texture changes - it only changes when the tonal range does. If its colour noise, then why is it not present on the even deeper blacks near the birds beak where the feathers are pressed together or damp?

You're right Andrew, I hadn't thought of the tree lights They have kept some tungsten tone rather than burning out to white, so that's a plus. I'd still like to see a single shot, especially if it had highlight and shadow correction applied, to see if that was capable of something similar to the HDR.

Your plan for the exposure of the Xmas trees sounds good - exposing for the lights plus 2 / 3 stops should give detail in the surrounds also - but don't you risk just blowing out the light highlights like that?

Diffused flash, maybe through a handheld lastolite kind of thing would be effective I'd think - direct flash may create uneven coverage of the tree and pale washed - out greens.

Is the noise 'finer grained' because of the extra pixels? If so, then my theory that greater detail recovery is possible could be true. If so, then you can 'get away' with that more aggressive NR (as you mentioned), so maybe there's not such a disadvantage?

There has been discussion, I remember vaguely, about slightly differing file sizes between DNG & PEF - with todays storage capacities both on SD cards and hard drives, I can't see this as being significant anymore.

I have never heard that there is any loss of data recorded in either. DNG has an advantage I think for people who don't use Image Cataloging programs (the kind that build a database file containing thumbnails), who instead use 'explorer' type browser viewing software - the advantage being that the DNG can update the embedded (displayed) JPEG to reflect adjustments made in RAW converters, so you can see the current 'state' of your image. A PEF will retain the original JPEG preview as recorded by the camera processor.

Its not a fight I appreciate everyones views, including those who have real experience with the different cameras. What you've said about your approach is helpful of course, and I'm just discussing some of the points and questions surrounding this matter.

I can't see any need for HDR here, or at least no noticable increased DR.

Do you have a straight shot also to compare that we could see?

Its the reviewing part that I feel may prove difficult, or impractical in real life situations. The LCD is comparitively tiny, and hardly ideal for carrying out detailed examinations of potentially problematic areas, with all the zooming and scrolling that would involve.

To build this sort of examination into a shooting technique in order to make critical quality decisions is surely inefficient?

It is for that reason that I would suggest the default AA simulator setting should be 'on'.

John, I've read something similar said in relation to 'FF' sensors. What are the techniques that may need honing to get the advantages would you say?

There's never been any apparent advantage to using PEF before, so I don't see why that should change. Even if you do use PDCU, all the camera metadata is still stored and acted upon by the software for both PEFs & DNGs.

There's no escaping that you'll just need more noise reduction input, whatever programme is used, or whether the process is applied through default profiles or direct user actions. The result is the same.

What is still to be understood more I believe, is the capacity of the higher pixel files to absorb additional compensating 'detail recovery' following the required noise reduction blurring.

Could I ask, for that example you experienced, if you had been using a K3, would you have actually switched on the simulator before taking the shot, for sure?