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Comment by MarkTaylor posted on Pentax lenses price increasing by 15-90%? at 06/04/2012 - 13:28
Frogfish wrote:
Firstly please note that I said ingenuous NOT disingenuous. The first suggests naivety, the second dishonesty. A rather large difference don't you think.
Funnily enough, either could apply in the case of either your comment or my response depending on a person's motivations, so I wouldn't push the point too hard.Firstly please note that I said ingenuous NOT disingenuous. The first suggests naivety, the second dishonesty. A rather large difference don't you think.
Frogfish wrote:
There is no 'panic' where I am concerned (and research will show you that I was not concerned during any of the episodes you have listed above...
If you can find where my original comments calling for folks to calm down were directed at yourself I'd be interested to know, because I can't.There is no 'panic' where I am concerned (and research will show you that I was not concerned during any of the episodes you have listed above...
As for my response, whilst indeed it was a response to your post, it still was still a general comment made no reference to any particular individual. Notice the word 'you' doesn't appear anywhere. That was a subtle grammatical hint.
Comment by MarkTaylor posted on Pentax lenses price increasing by 15-90%? at 06/04/2012 - 12:52
Nah, the K-3 has a built-in digital bokemeter.
Comment by MarkTaylor posted on Photographer unearths rare bokeh meter... at 06/04/2012 - 01:27
Frogfish wrote:
Mark, you seem to have an almost religious faith that Pentax know what they are doing...
I have a religious faith? Seriously?Mark, you seem to have an almost religious faith that Pentax know what they are doing...
Sure, big companies make mistakes. Even so, nine out of ten mistakes don't kill them and if it's disingenuous to suggest people shouldn't be distraught about what they perceive as a bad move without even knowing the reasoning behind it, then it's just as disingenuous to suggest that this perceived error will surely be the thing that will kill them off once and for all.
Truly, every time Pentax so much as twitch a muscle, or fail to twitch a muscle for a few months, people go into panic mode and predict the end of Pentax, declare the company 'dead in the water' etc. etc. I haven't even been a Pentax user that long, the K-5 being my first Pentax, and in this time I've seen about 5 or 6 major panics break out already.
- K-5 has sensor stains. Result: Panic! the model can never succeed now, it will kill Pentax's reputation, Pentax will die a horrible death!
- K-5 has low light focus problems. Reaction: Panic! How can Pentax possibly survive this one, folks?
- The 18-135 WR gets a couple of bad reviews: Hey guys, let's Panic!
- Pentax don't release or announce a single new lens or body for several months - Panic! They're obviously dead already. Look, they've stopped breathing!
- The Q is an awful product and the worst idea ever: Panic! Pentax will surely die this time!
- The K-01 is just as horrible - Panic again!
- K-r is discontinued with no word of a replacment - Guess what?
...etc. etc. etc.
So excuse me if I'm just a little cynical about the latest panic (actually panic number 8 since the release of the K-5 - and the panics are so frequent I could well have forgotten a few) and feel perfectly justified in asking people to calm down, even if for JUST THIS ONCE! Enough with the panics already. Please! It makes what is mostly a really nice, welcoming and friendly community just a little unbearable at times.
It's not as if anybody is obliged to do what I suggest in any case, so I'm sure whoever wants to go on panicking will go right ahead and run around in ever decreasing circles until they drop dead of stress.
Comment by MarkTaylor posted on Pentax lenses price increasing by 15-90%? at 06/04/2012 - 00:14
johnriley wrote:
I've just had a look at the SRS website and although some lenses have gone up in price, there are plenty that have not.
At any given time the only answer IMHO is to look around as prices do move, in both directions, and the only point it matters is when we are actually ready to buy.
If too few people buy at a high price, then the price will fall. If things are in very short supply and there's an excess of buyers the price will rise. Supply and demand rules!
My sentiments exactly. I've noticed a tendency among the Pentax community to panic and pronounce the end of the world (or at least the end of Pentax) at the slightest provocation. It reminds me of the various predictions of the apocolypse/armageddon/rapture etc. which crop up every few years. They never actually happen but folks go on predicting them anyway.I've just had a look at the SRS website and although some lenses have gone up in price, there are plenty that have not.
At any given time the only answer IMHO is to look around as prices do move, in both directions, and the only point it matters is when we are actually ready to buy.
If too few people buy at a high price, then the price will fall. If things are in very short supply and there's an excess of buyers the price will rise. Supply and demand rules!
Whether or not my speculation is correct Ricoh/Pentax will be doing what they're doing with good reason. Just because they're not inclined to divulge their long term plans some folks seem to assume they don't have any and they're just shooting themselves in the face for the sake of it. No sane company would do such a thing, so unless somebody very senior at Pentax has actually literally lost their marbles it isn't terribly likely. I appeal for common sense to prevail and for people to stop all the doomsaying and relax!
...Rant over...
Comment by MarkTaylor posted on Pentax lenses price increasing by 15-90%? at 05/04/2012 - 13:49
Nice! That 10-20 makes my 8-16 look weeny. Maybe it's just the angle.
Comment by MarkTaylor posted on Today, the postman made me a happy bunny! at 04/04/2012 - 22:08
Frogfish wrote:
You misunderstood me Mark ... I meant loss of sales across the board (affecting B&M too) due to the exorbitant new prices and loss of shooters to CaNikon since Pentax have given up one of their prime advantages without offering anything in exchange.
I can only think it is to reduce demand enabling them to retool certain lines to cope with new lenses (e.g. the 560mm and possibly everything else on the new road-map). I hope that's not wishful thinking
Possibly, but I don't think so. Personally I think Pentax will drop their prices but they're testing the water first. I also think it's reasonably safe for them to do so. Very few Pentax users will panic and jump ship within a month or two of Pentax taking this step - that would be a last resort for most as it would be costly in the short term for benefits which would at best be dubious in the longer term.You misunderstood me Mark ... I meant loss of sales across the board (affecting B&M too) due to the exorbitant new prices and loss of shooters to CaNikon since Pentax have given up one of their prime advantages without offering anything in exchange.
I can only think it is to reduce demand enabling them to retool certain lines to cope with new lenses (e.g. the 560mm and possibly everything else on the new road-map). I hope that's not wishful thinking
[On an aside, for me to be drawn away from Pentax other manufacturers would have to compete more strongly in terms of the size and weight of their cameras and lenses. I associate with enough CanNikon users to know I just don't want to have to carry that stuff around. Mirrorless still have a way to go to tempt me away from DSLRs, though.]
Comment by MarkTaylor posted on Pentax lenses price increasing by 15-90%? at 04/04/2012 - 21:19
Frogfish wrote:
though I imagine that extra profit will be off-set by loss of sales.
Precisely, and a significant chunk of that loss of sales will go to B&M stores. People like to be able to touch and feel cameras and lenses before they buy them. I know I do. I can't think of a photographer I know well who doesn't. This applies to first-time buyers even more so since they really don't have the experience to know what they're buying without handling it first. Many photographers I know will go into a store to get a chance to play with a camera or lens before buying, and then purchase the product online. If there was no longer any price difference between the B&M store and the online store I'm pretty sure most of them would just buy there and then, on the spot, and walk out of the store with the product instead of having to wait several days for it to arrive in the mail.though I imagine that extra profit will be off-set by loss of sales.
Personally I think online retailers will lose more sales than they can possibly make up for with increased per-unit profits.
Comment by MarkTaylor posted on Pentax lenses price increasing by 15-90%? at 04/04/2012 - 21:00
Frogfish wrote:
If you think that then you need to start checking online prices again. They are indeed offering higher profits because they are stating the minimum price their products can be sold at, as per their adaptation of a Unilateral Pricing Policy (see other major brands). B&H or Adorama are a good place to start to see the changes - their Pentax lens prices have rocketed, yet of course their wholesale prices haven't changed so it's not Pentax who are making more ... it's the retailers profits that have soared. This will no doubt have a much smaller effect on the UK prices as they have always been much higher than some other markets, noticeably the USA and Far East.
I'm entirely aware of the effect on online prices... but Pentax certainly ain't doing this to make online retailers happy. Now you can compare prices at dozens of online stores at the touch of a button, effective online retailing is all about being able to undercut the competition. Now that they can't, they're not exactly going to be jumping for joy about it.If you think that then you need to start checking online prices again. They are indeed offering higher profits because they are stating the minimum price their products can be sold at, as per their adaptation of a Unilateral Pricing Policy (see other major brands). B&H or Adorama are a good place to start to see the changes - their Pentax lens prices have rocketed, yet of course their wholesale prices haven't changed so it's not Pentax who are making more ... it's the retailers profits that have soared. This will no doubt have a much smaller effect on the UK prices as they have always been much higher than some other markets, noticeably the USA and Far East.
The ones who will be happy about this are ...(funnily enough we come back to it)... the B&M stores, whose costs are too high to enable them to compete purely on price with the onliners.
When book prices were deregulated in the UK (effectively the opposite of what is happening here, only mandated by the government rather than a manufacturer) the B&M bookstores were cursing them, and the online retailers were loving it.
Comment by MarkTaylor posted on Pentax lenses price increasing by 15-90%? at 04/04/2012 - 20:45
Frogfish wrote:
Those 24-70's you have quoted are NOT the equivalent lenses !
Take a look here for a blow by blow comparison of every Pentax lens vs. Canon's : link That is from 2009 but now Pentax have raised their prices it's even more relevant.
You can't compare the 16-50 (now US$1,500) to Canon/Nikon's legendary glass, it's nowhere near that class. The 16-50's new price is now far in excess of the Canon EF-S 17-55mm f/2.8 (ca. US$1,000) and Nikon's 17-55/2.8 (ca. US$1,000) and priced well past even the superb Canon EF 16-35mm f/2.8 (L glass for US$1,300). Pentax have over-priced their lenses, there is a reason most Canon and their Nikon equivalents are similarly priced.
Well on one thing we agree, at least. I have no problem with Pentax regulating retail prices but they do need to drop at least a few of their MSRPs to make it work.Those 24-70's you have quoted are NOT the equivalent lenses !
Take a look here for a blow by blow comparison of every Pentax lens vs. Canon's : link That is from 2009 but now Pentax have raised their prices it's even more relevant.
You can't compare the 16-50 (now US$1,500) to Canon/Nikon's legendary glass, it's nowhere near that class. The 16-50's new price is now far in excess of the Canon EF-S 17-55mm f/2.8 (ca. US$1,000) and Nikon's 17-55/2.8 (ca. US$1,000) and priced well past even the superb Canon EF 16-35mm f/2.8 (L glass for US$1,300). Pentax have over-priced their lenses, there is a reason most Canon and their Nikon equivalents are similarly priced.
Comment by MarkTaylor posted on Pentax lenses price increasing by 15-90%? at 04/04/2012 - 20:40
Yes your reply was a response to my post, but since you didn't specifically use the 2nd person pronoun then I shouldn't take it as being directed at me ?