Why I HATE Umbrella Lighting...

gartmore
Posted 21/07/2009 - 18:18 Link
I know what Ben is saying; a friend once described them as 'no skill, just fill'. I have three and they've never been used.

Brollies that is, not friends!
Ken
“We must avoid however, snapping away, shooting quickly and without thought, overloading ourselves with unnecessary images that clutter our memory and diminish the clarity of the whole.” - Henri Cartier-Bresson -
Edited by gartmore: 21/07/2009 - 18:19
Darkmunk
Posted 21/07/2009 - 19:30 Link
Quote:
a friend once described them as 'no skill, just fill'
Well that's one of those, 'easy to say' less easy to justify sayings. IMO it is utter bollocks.
The brolly is a fantastically versatile diffuser you can by them for peanuts carry them anywhere and rubber band them to any remote flash. et voila! soft shadow edges instead of hard ones (use number one).
My image was taken in a hurry. I needed a 'look', in a tight space... I got it. I knew exactly what I was doing, I got what I wanted and she was delighted.
Later in the week I took an industrial air conditioning duct, cut it to 1.5 feet and attached it to a studio head to create very large snoot, which I fired across a room onto a rugged fellow to create a more defined and masculine look. Umbrella stayed in the bag, but I didn't feel the need to write a blog about it, or invent a stupid one liner.
gartmore
Posted 21/07/2009 - 19:39 Link
Stupid one liner came from cinematographer with two Emmy nominations and a BAFTA Lifetime achievement award. Calm down.
Ken
“We must avoid however, snapping away, shooting quickly and without thought, overloading ourselves with unnecessary images that clutter our memory and diminish the clarity of the whole.” - Henri Cartier-Bresson -
Darkmunk
Posted 21/07/2009 - 20:27 Link
I'm OK Ken. You know me, I don't bend over and take it from anyone or suck up to anyone. I wasn't suggesting you meant me, I am just standing up for the humble brolly.
I have no respect for authority or celebrity or any other kind of elitism. So I still hold that it is bollocks and just more photo snobbery.
amoringello
Posted 22/07/2009 - 01:45 Link
Hmm, how appropriate, an umbrella challenge:
http://www.ephotozine.com/challenges/c1240
Critical-i
Posted 22/07/2009 - 02:17 Link
Darkmunk wrote:
Quote:
a friend once described them as 'no skill, just fill'
Well that's one of those, 'easy to say' less easy to justify sayings. IMO it is utter bollocks.
The brolly is a fantastically versatile diffuser you can by them for peanuts carry them anywhere and rubber band them to any remote flash. et voila! soft shadow edges instead of hard ones (use number one).
My image was taken in a hurry. I needed a 'look', in a tight space... I got it. I knew exactly what I was doing, I got what I wanted and she was delighted.
Later in the week I took an industrial air conditioning duct, cut it to 1.5 feet and attached it to a studio head to create very large snoot, which I fired across a room onto a rugged fellow to create a more defined and masculine look. Umbrella stayed in the bag, but I didn't feel the need to write a blog about it, or invent a stupid one liner.
Bit defensive are we? If you wrote a blog about it perhaps we'd all learn something?
Cheers, Steve
Darkmunk
Posted 22/07/2009 - 08:14 Link
Steve, your post beggars belief. Go away and insert brain.
If you want to learn something, go and read the million tutorials already out there.
I have £500 worth of diffusers, because there's still a market for flattering images. Sometimes I chose just the brolly. That doesn't make me unimaginative, or unskillful, that makes me shrewd. I am aware of all the other possibilities and I explore them when it is appropriate.

In this thread I simply took up the gauntlet of defending what is rapidly becoming a much maligned piece of equipment.

So yes I'm being defensive - I'm defending the umbrella.

But... I'll speak slowly for you Steve, I agree with Ben that we should try to be more imaginative and I don't agree with Ken's Friend. Is that OK?
johnriley
Posted 22/07/2009 - 10:00 Link
I use the umbrella, the softbox, the snoot and anything else that takes my fancy at the time, but most of all I prefer the look of natural light.

Unfortunately in some circumstances natural light is not there on tap, so flash with umbrella it might have to be!
Best regards, John
Critical-i
Posted 22/07/2009 - 22:15 Link
Darkmunk wrote:
Steve, your post beggars belief. Go away and insert brain.
If you want to learn something, go and read the million tutorials already out there.
I have £500 worth of diffusers, because there's still a market for flattering images. Sometimes I chose just the brolly. That doesn't make me unimaginative, or unskillful, that makes me shrewd. I am aware of all the other possibilities and I explore them when it is appropriate.

In this thread I simply took up the gauntlet of defending what is rapidly becoming a much maligned piece of equipment.

So yes I'm being defensive - I'm defending the umbrella.

But... I'll speak slowly for you Steve, I agree with Ben that we should try to be more imaginative and I don't agree with Ken's Friend. Is that OK?
Well clearly you know a lot because you spend £500 on diffusers and see fit to disparage, despise and belittle anyone you disagree with. It's a shame therefore that you are not willing to share that knowledge because it must be something really special.

Most people I come across who are any good have developed several unique techniques so I never assume I can't learn from someone whose work I have not come across before, however many books I read, courses I complete, or years I practice.

However I prefer to learn from people with a more friendly and outgoing personality, so perhaps its not such a bad thing after all.
Cheers, Steve
Don
Posted 22/07/2009 - 22:35 Link
johnriley wrote:
I use the umbrella, the softbox, the snoot and anything else that takes my fancy at the time, but most of all I prefer the look of natural light.

Unfortunately in some circumstances natural light is not there on tap, so flash with umbrella it might have to be!
When I couldn't afford fancy equipment, I worked with natural light.
I learned to use it well.
I made money with it and bought some lighting equipment...
I had little money, so I learned to improvise and use cheap or found items....
I learned to use it well.
I made money and bought the fancy 'Pro' equipment...(always buy the best you can afford is my motto).
I've learned to use it well...

How do I know I'm using it well? I can, whenever I choose to do so, use my studio lighting to re-create the lighting I found in nature, for my best 'natural light' images.... that is right...mimic natural light... if I want soft overcast sky, I got softboxes... if I want early morning sun, I got grids and gels...

so why the expensive gear at all?

I can make early morning sun, on demand, regardless of weather, any time of day... that is why.
I'm an 'available light' shooter, any light that is available, I'll use.
Fired many shots. Didn't kill anything.
benjikan
Posted 22/07/2009 - 23:03 Link
I just wish to clarify something here, I love Richard Avedon, Irving Penn, Bert Stern and others work. It isn't so much the tool but how one uses it and as far as I am concerned too many people are reaching for the tools without too much forethought. That is not a critique, but an observation. When I gave a tutorial at the Sorbonne School of Photography a branch in Orleans, France. The first things I asked was, what are your preferred lighting tools and in almost all cases the answer was what you would expect. I was attempting to have them think outside of the box, to break with convention. Once you have the vocabulary and reasoning for why you are doing what you are doing, then perhaps the response might be a single 60" umbrella at 60° right and above the model, because "that is what you Wanted..."
Don
Posted 22/07/2009 - 23:16 Link
benjikan wrote:
I just wish to clarify something here, I love Richard Avedon, Irving Penn, Bert Stern and others work. It isn't so much the tool but how one uses it and as far as I am concerned too many people are reaching for the tools without too much forethought. That is not a critique, but an observation. When I gave a tutorial at the Sorbonne School of Photography a branch in Orleans, France. The first things I asked was, what are your preferred lighting tools and in almost all cases the answer was what you would expect. I was attempting to have them think outside of the box, to break with convention. Once you have the vocabulary and reasoning for why you are doing what you are doing, then perhaps the response might be a single 60" umbrella at 60° right and above the model, because "that is what you Wanted..."
Now I understand! thank you! I'm a little lacking in vocabulary...that's what attracts me to visual mediums in the first place!
Fired many shots. Didn't kill anything.
Edited by Don: 22/07/2009 - 23:17
benjikan
Posted 24/07/2009 - 02:05 Link
Don wrote:
benjikan wrote:
I just wish to clarify something here, I love Richard Avedon, Irving Penn, Bert Stern and others work. It isn't so much the tool but how one uses it and as far as I am concerned too many people are reaching for the tools without too much forethought. That is not a critique, but an observation. When I gave a tutorial at the Sorbonne School of Photography a branch in Orleans, France. The first things I asked was, what are your preferred lighting tools and in almost all cases the answer was what you would expect. I was attempting to have them think outside of the box, to break with convention. Once you have the vocabulary and reasoning for why you are doing what you are doing, then perhaps the response might be a single 60" umbrella at 60° right and above the model, because "that is what you Wanted..."
Now I understand! thank you! I'm a little lacking in vocabulary...that's what attracts me to visual mediums in the first place!
I am pleased that you got my meaning

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