Why I HATE Umbrella Lighting...
Posted 20/07/2009 - 04:47
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benjikan wrote:
My intention in this post is not meant to be arrogant or insulting to any of you. All I am suggesting is a different approach that might give you your own mark that will enhance your identity.
I'm not trying to call you arrogant, nor am I insulted. I'm not trying to be sarcastic either.My intention in this post is not meant to be arrogant or insulting to any of you. All I am suggesting is a different approach that might give you your own mark that will enhance your identity.
I am, however, interested in learning more from you than just an abstract opinion, which I am trying to understand.
Here's an image I shot using an umbrella and a softbox....and one background light in a small space..... this is the type of shot my customers (rather thier mothers) may ask for.....(just a practice shot, not a paying customer, also not a lot of post processing)... I just made this tonite to go with my question... How do I sell something really different, when the people who buy from me probably won't get it?
no professional model. no makeup artist. no art director. just a kid and his Mom...
Fired many shots. Didn't kill anything.
Posted 20/07/2009 - 17:33
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Here is my entry in favour of the incredibly handy shoot-thru brolly.
This just used the brolly on Her Indoors. With girlie processing.
It's not going to win Ben over but the clients love it. So for now, I prostitute myself and imagine endless hours in bohemian bars dreaming up exotic situations and avant garde lighting with snoots and barn doors and Tuscan sunset pouring thru a broken window onto a half-dressed red haired beauty putting perfume under the ear of a tatty old teddy... with a patch on his eye...... yeah, and he's smoking... and there's this other shadow on the wall...
oops sorry... (cough)
This just used the brolly on Her Indoors. With girlie processing.
It's not going to win Ben over but the clients love it. So for now, I prostitute myself and imagine endless hours in bohemian bars dreaming up exotic situations and avant garde lighting with snoots and barn doors and Tuscan sunset pouring thru a broken window onto a half-dressed red haired beauty putting perfume under the ear of a tatty old teddy... with a patch on his eye...... yeah, and he's smoking... and there's this other shadow on the wall...
oops sorry... (cough)
Posted 20/07/2009 - 19:40
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Quote:
You heard it here first, next Pentax User meet in Amin's shed!
Hear, hear
You heard it here first, next Pentax User meet in Amin's shed!
Kind regards,
Michal R. Hoffmann
K20D, DA 16-45mm, A 50mm F/1:1.4, DA 55-300mm; flash Pentax AF240Z
Michal R. Hoffmann
K20D, DA 16-45mm, A 50mm F/1:1.4, DA 55-300mm; flash Pentax AF240Z
Posted 20/07/2009 - 20:05
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Unlocker wrote:
Is this the same Amin who spend lots of time building contraptions in his shed, makes frequent visits to Heathrow airport and gets stopped by the police for his strange behaviour. Now I'm not making accusations but....aminstar wrote:
All I have is a shed, although air-conditioned I must admit and with a mini bar now nicely positioned nicely stocked with drinks and mars bars
You heard it here first, next Pentax User meet in Amin's shed!All I have is a shed, although air-conditioned I must admit and with a mini bar now nicely positioned nicely stocked with drinks and mars bars
Posted 21/07/2009 - 01:56
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greynolds999 wrote:
Unlocker wrote:
Is this the same Amin who spend lots of time building contraptions in his shed, makes frequent visits to Heathrow airport and gets stopped by the police for his strange behaviour. Now I'm not making accusations but....aminstar wrote:
All I have is a shed, although air-conditioned I must admit and with a mini bar now nicely positioned nicely stocked with drinks and mars bars
You heard it here first, next Pentax User meet in Amin's shed!All I have is a shed, although air-conditioned I must admit and with a mini bar now nicely positioned nicely stocked with drinks and mars bars
I like Amin! if it weren't for airfare, I'd bring the ice!
Fired many shots. Didn't kill anything.
Posted 21/07/2009 - 02:12
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ttk wrote:
Nice shot Don, Lighting and detail spot on IMO.
thanx...Nice shot Don, Lighting and detail spot on IMO.
was hoping to show some interesting lighting done with umbrellas and a softbox, because i use them alot and I do try not to have my lighting flat and boring...but Ben did say "Surprise me" so felt it was worth a shot... but more importantly I KNOW there is a lot we could all learn from Ben.. which is why I asked him to teach... I got grids, I got snoots, I got barndoors.... I'm eager to learn something new...
the way I used my umbrella in that shot...
silver umbrella mounted on a bogen arm, seperate from a snooted strobe... the strobe was aimed into a side of the umbrella, to create an eliptical light pattern, with a hard spot and a diffused circle of softer light, around it. (think fried egg sunny side up).. giving me both that deep glass marble look to the eye, and a pool of hard light on the center of the face, with softer light wrapping around the face... my backdrop light...gridded was bounced off my angled white paper to give fill and seperation from the back and side...
and my softbox, opposite the main umbrella, used slightly off axis from the lens to control contrast and set the amount of "Depth" to the shadows, and skin pores...
a little more sophisticated than flooding the image area with flat soft boring light... I hope...
now I hope Ben can find the time (hope we didn't offend him) to show us something totally different, that we kids can try at home! sincerely, Ben, I'm interested in learning.
Fired many shots. Didn't kill anything.
Posted 21/07/2009 - 08:26
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I wouldn't hold your breath Don (or anyone else), Ben has a track record of dipping in and out when it suits him and not answering his own posts. Which I don't have a problem with. I'm always glad to see him.
I took his humorous rant as tongue-in-cheek snobbery designed to make people think out of the box. Thinking differently is not something you can teach.
I was already bored of my own work, and immediately empathised with his point. But needs must.
There are numerous tutorials out there and it wouldn't surprise me if you (Don), could teach him a few tricks, I suspect his main talents are less tangible, and all the more valuable. Or he just got lucky! and has a team of creatives and technicians
Anyway all this conjecture is keeping his post alive and fueling his marketing which is all cool.
I took his humorous rant as tongue-in-cheek snobbery designed to make people think out of the box. Thinking differently is not something you can teach.
I was already bored of my own work, and immediately empathised with his point. But needs must.
There are numerous tutorials out there and it wouldn't surprise me if you (Don), could teach him a few tricks, I suspect his main talents are less tangible, and all the more valuable. Or he just got lucky! and has a team of creatives and technicians
Anyway all this conjecture is keeping his post alive and fueling his marketing which is all cool.
Posted 21/07/2009 - 10:43
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benjikan wrote:
Why I HATE Umbrella Lighting...
If you want to get me to fall a sleep, just show me some images shot with umbrella lighting. Now I am not talking Richard Avedon, because Richard Avedon did a lot more than capture images with a single umbrella, he captured a moment that is so his signature, that anyone else attempting to copy would be dwarfed by the sheer magnitude of what Avedon accomplished.
Umbrella lighting is the 'WalMart' or the 'Ford Pinto' of lighting for me. It is the horrible gig at the Holiday Inn, where some dried up ex alcoholic is attempting to make a come back singing 'I will Survive" to a bunch of totally miserable accountants congregating for their annual convention.
Umbrella light is that really bad hair do or dress that can only be seen in some totally kitsch boutique in Boise, Idaho. It is that Wedding photo that we have all grown to, ah, hmmm, Love?
It smacks of hey, I am now a photographer because I now own a couple of studio lights and have to have this because if I don't I won't be considered credible and it will impress anyone who doesn't know any better and the bigger the better types...
Ah, give me that umbrella to be very, very safe and to not upset the REAL serious photographers out there that believe that you have to have a reflector to kick in some light in to "THAT" shadow area, otherwise it is NOT a technically good image.
What is even worse is that those who MUST HAVE an umbrella, will almost certainly have a..."Da Da, a Soft-box!!!" Now THAT is really impressive. Every time I see a set up with a soft-box and the "UMBRELLA" I pop the proverbial CHUBBY and have to sit down, as to not expose by excitement.
Now, if somebody were to say to me, "Hey check out what I did with this umbrella!" that would totally blow me away, I would be so F'ing pleased. But at this point in time, I have seen nothing but flat, boring, pedestrian, predictable, unassuming, dull and flat out knock me out with a VALIUM the size of a HOCKEY PUCK images.
Hey, but who knows. Given that surprises do happen, I'm open to the possibilities.
Surprise me.
]http://www.benjaminkanarekblog.com/?p=814
Why I HATE Umbrella Lighting...
If you want to get me to fall a sleep, just show me some images shot with umbrella lighting. Now I am not talking Richard Avedon, because Richard Avedon did a lot more than capture images with a single umbrella, he captured a moment that is so his signature, that anyone else attempting to copy would be dwarfed by the sheer magnitude of what Avedon accomplished.
Umbrella lighting is the 'WalMart' or the 'Ford Pinto' of lighting for me. It is the horrible gig at the Holiday Inn, where some dried up ex alcoholic is attempting to make a come back singing 'I will Survive" to a bunch of totally miserable accountants congregating for their annual convention.
Umbrella light is that really bad hair do or dress that can only be seen in some totally kitsch boutique in Boise, Idaho. It is that Wedding photo that we have all grown to, ah, hmmm, Love?
It smacks of hey, I am now a photographer because I now own a couple of studio lights and have to have this because if I don't I won't be considered credible and it will impress anyone who doesn't know any better and the bigger the better types...
Ah, give me that umbrella to be very, very safe and to not upset the REAL serious photographers out there that believe that you have to have a reflector to kick in some light in to "THAT" shadow area, otherwise it is NOT a technically good image.
What is even worse is that those who MUST HAVE an umbrella, will almost certainly have a..."Da Da, a Soft-box!!!" Now THAT is really impressive. Every time I see a set up with a soft-box and the "UMBRELLA" I pop the proverbial CHUBBY and have to sit down, as to not expose by excitement.
Now, if somebody were to say to me, "Hey check out what I did with this umbrella!" that would totally blow me away, I would be so F'ing pleased. But at this point in time, I have seen nothing but flat, boring, pedestrian, predictable, unassuming, dull and flat out knock me out with a VALIUM the size of a HOCKEY PUCK images.
Hey, but who knows. Given that surprises do happen, I'm open to the possibilities.
Surprise me.
]http://www.benjaminkanarekblog.com/?p=814
Hi Ben, can I take this to mean.....
Just because Warehouse Express sells lighting kits with umbrellas and softboxes and cheesy "how to" videos does not mean there are not more interesting (and low cost) ways to reflect and diffuse light, nor do they force you to follow lighting rules because you CAN use normal mods in other ways. So you are throwing down the gauntlet?
Having said that dear old strobist manages to use brollies outdoors to stunning effect, but they are not much use in a stiff breeze....
Cheers, Steve
Posted 21/07/2009 - 12:21
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May be this post and other sporadic posts are a CEO driven stunt to drive more incoming links to websites or blogs thus raising the importance of such sites in search engines
or
maybe they are designed to get us to think out of the box.
Either way sometimes soft-box and umbrella lighting is useful. Maybe to clearly show a product for a website, catalogue or brochure. I do not think any photographers tool can be dismissed out of hand when a certain result is required. Horses for courses.......
I hate using motorway's but still do so, as often they are the best choice to reach the desired destination!
So the question is would you use the technique if it for-filled your client or photo requirements?
I certainly would.
or
maybe they are designed to get us to think out of the box.
Either way sometimes soft-box and umbrella lighting is useful. Maybe to clearly show a product for a website, catalogue or brochure. I do not think any photographers tool can be dismissed out of hand when a certain result is required. Horses for courses.......
I hate using motorway's but still do so, as often they are the best choice to reach the desired destination!
So the question is would you use the technique if it for-filled your client or photo requirements?
I certainly would.
Posted 21/07/2009 - 17:53
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Well all this is unfortunately wasted on me as I dont own an umbrella because I cant afford lighting kit.
Ime trying to make my own "make shift" lighting kit consisting of bed sheets, halogen lamps with white bulbs and tin foil.
However ime unfortunately yet to actually try any of it due to lacking a model but ime working on it
Coming back to the post though, Ime still yet to see anyone mention a different or better form of lighting than brollys and ime still confused as to what the point was???
Excuse me for being stupid but can someone enlighten me?? LOL
Ime trying to make my own "make shift" lighting kit consisting of bed sheets, halogen lamps with white bulbs and tin foil.
However ime unfortunately yet to actually try any of it due to lacking a model but ime working on it
Coming back to the post though, Ime still yet to see anyone mention a different or better form of lighting than brollys and ime still confused as to what the point was???
Excuse me for being stupid but can someone enlighten me?? LOL
Lil Andy
K20D, PENTAX DA 18-55, TAMRON DI 70-300, PENTAX SMC-K 135 f2.5
www.ajohnson-photography.co.uk
K20D, PENTAX DA 18-55, TAMRON DI 70-300, PENTAX SMC-K 135 f2.5
www.ajohnson-photography.co.uk
Posted 21/07/2009 - 18:02
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Andy it was simply the point that most portrait photos you see are almost the same since they used the same lighting equipment and also use it the same way.
He was just screaming out to be creative and to try something else.
He was just screaming out to be creative and to try something else.
Stefan
K10D, K5
DA* 16-50, DA* 50-135, D-FA 100 Macro, DA 40 Ltd, DA 18-55
AF-540FGZ
K10D, K5
DA* 16-50, DA* 50-135, D-FA 100 Macro, DA 40 Ltd, DA 18-55
AF-540FGZ
Posted 21/07/2009 - 18:06
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Thats a bloody long rant for something you have summed up in 2 lines
LOL
My point was maily that nobody else or indeed Ben has suggested any other more original methods.
Except for my bodge lighting obv
LOL
My point was maily that nobody else or indeed Ben has suggested any other more original methods.
Except for my bodge lighting obv
Lil Andy
K20D, PENTAX DA 18-55, TAMRON DI 70-300, PENTAX SMC-K 135 f2.5
www.ajohnson-photography.co.uk
K20D, PENTAX DA 18-55, TAMRON DI 70-300, PENTAX SMC-K 135 f2.5
www.ajohnson-photography.co.uk
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10412 posts
18 years
Dordrecht,
the Netherlands
All I have is a shed, although air-conditioned I must admit and with a mini bar now nicely positioned nicely stocked with drinks and mars bars
K10D, K5
DA* 16-50, DA* 50-135, D-FA 100 Macro, DA 40 Ltd, DA 18-55
AF-540FGZ