Why do Pentax lag with autofocus?


Mike-P

Link Posted 30/01/2013 - 18:56
cabstar wrote:
Pentax da* lenses are silent too...

My first * lens was a used 16-50mm off Ebay. I very nearly filed a dispute the first time I used it as I thought it was broken
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Gwyn

Link Posted 30/01/2013 - 19:44
Mike-P wrote:
cabstar wrote:
Pentax da* lenses are silent too...

My first * lens was a used 16-50mm off Ebay. I very nearly filed a dispute the first time I used it as I thought it was broken

When I use my (non HSM)Sigmas nowadays I find them incredibly noisy.

The DA17-70 is SDM and of course the 18-135 is a DC, which is very nearly as silent as the SDM lenses.

awaldram

Link Posted 01/02/2013 - 06:34
dcweather wrote:
Just been out in the lovely sunshine and again found my K-30 lacking in autofocus speed. I've seen an improvement over K-r but not massive.Two ducks we were watching took off so there wasn't a massive re-focus need by my DA* 300mm. Swung round and panned but just couldn't hit the focus. My friend with his aged Nikon D300 and also a 300mm prime got them both no problem. This happens time and time again and I have spoken to other Pentax birders who say the same. The question is, then, why can't Pentax match this old technology with their otherwise competition beating cameras?
Dave

I can't be bothered to read the replies as the first few seem to be tut tut so true!!

Come on get a grip a k30 Vs a d300 !!!

How about put that d300 against a 1ds you can then berate why Nikon AF is so poor.

The fact is the k30 is a entry level camera and behaves like one, surprise surprise lord help us !!

I've handled a number of entry level cameras form all manufacturer there all sluggish if you used to something better.

dcweather

Link Posted 01/02/2013 - 11:00
awaldram wrote:
dcweather wrote:
Just been out in the lovely sunshine and again found my K-30 lacking in autofocus speed. I've seen an improvement over K-r but not massive.Two ducks we were watching took off so there wasn't a massive re-focus need by my DA* 300mm. Swung round and panned but just couldn't hit the focus. My friend with his aged Nikon D300 and also a 300mm prime got them both no problem. This happens time and time again and I have spoken to other Pentax birders who say the same. The question is, then, why can't Pentax match this old technology with their otherwise competition beating cameras?
Dave

I can't be bothered to read the replies as the first few seem to be tut tut so true!!

Come on get a grip a k30 Vs a d300 !!!

How about put that d300 against a 1ds you can then berate why Nikon AF is so poor.

The fact is the k30 is a entry level camera and behaves like one, surprise surprise lord help us !!

I've handled a number of entry level cameras form all manufacturer there all sluggish if you used to something better.

-------------------------------------------------------------
In that case the K-r must be children's toy level one. Is the K5 an entry level camera then? Because the AF is supposed to be slightly better in the newer K-30. I think you miss the point really. Most things progress and being several years newer than e.g a D300 you would see no reason why K30/K5 would not be getting closer to their AF performance considering the massive improvements in other areas. e.g, high iso performance, live view ,resolution, to name just a few. The K5 and K30 are also not as fast AF compared with their "entry level" Canikon equivalents. So, as in my original question, is there some difficulty with the chosen Pentax system AF hardware/software that makes improvement difficult

johnriley

Link Posted 01/02/2013 - 11:13
You have a choice with Pentax DSLRs of setting the AF to focus priority or release priority, so that may make a difference.

Pentax AF is actually pretty fast as far as I have found, and reputed to be more accurate than other marques, but very fast subjects will be missed more often than still ones.

Apart from the very high end cameras, the camera club members I talk to find plenty of gripes about Canbon and Nikon AF, especially focus tracking.

The grass may not be as green as you think.
Best regards, John

Mike-P

Link Posted 01/02/2013 - 11:53
awaldram wrote:


Come on get a grip a k30 Vs a d300 !!!

How about put that d300 against a 1ds you can then berate why Nikon AF is so poor.

The fact is the k30 is a entry level camera and behaves like one, surprise surprise lord help us !!

I've handled a number of entry level cameras form all manufacturer there all sluggish if you used to something better.

The D300 is over 5 years old and its AF system has been upgraded a few times since in newer Nikon cameras. Do you not think that the K30 (which is not an entry level camera) autofocus should at least be on par with a 5 year old (no longer manufactured) body?.
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Smeggypants

Link Posted 01/02/2013 - 12:29
johnriley wrote:
You have a choice with Pentax DSLRs of setting the AF to focus priority or release priority, so that may make a difference.

Pentax AF is actually pretty fast as far as I have found, and reputed to be more accurate than other marques, but very fast subjects will be missed more often than still ones.

Apart from the very high end cameras, the camera club members I talk to find plenty of gripes about Canon and Nikon AF, especially focus tracking.

The grass may not be as green as you think.

It's a valid point and of course no camera is perfect, but having actually tried the AF on friend's Canon cameras I can testify that Pentax needs to catch up in comparison. Can't speak for Nikon as I haven't tried one.

The general consensus amongst Pentax enthusiasts from what I can seefrom various blogs, forums, etc, is that while Pentax cams can hold their own against anything else compared to other brands, the AF is one of the only aspects where Pentax falls behind.

And as I've stuck by Pentax since 1986, I consider myself a genuine real Pentax loyalist,... hahaha. LOL. Mate. innit

My thoughts remain positive, but not sycophantic, for Pentax. I believe the new Ricoh alliance will allow common sense, but I am patient as it takes time.
[i]Bodies: 1x K-5IIs, 2x K-5, Sony TX-5, Nokia 808
Lenses: Pentax DA 10-17mm ED(IF) Fish Eye, Pentax DA 14mm f/2.8, Sigma 17-70mm f/2.8, Pentax-A 28mm f/2.8, Sigma 30mm F1.4 EX DC, Pentax-A 50mm f/1.2, Pentax-A 50mm f/1.4, Pentax-FA 50mm f/1.4, Pentax-A 50mm f/1.7, Pentax DA* 50-135mm f/2.8, Sigma 135-400mm APO DG, and more ..
Flash: AF-540FGZ, Vivitar 283

MattMatic

Link Posted 01/02/2013 - 12:42
Quote:
My thoughts remain positive, but not sycophantic, for Pentax. I believe the new Ricoh alliance will allow common sense, but I am patient as it takes time.

Given the improvements in AF accuracy and low level handling in the K5II/s, I suspect that the extra funds (and perhaps knowledge) from Ricoh are making things look very positive!
Matt
http://www.mattmatic.co.uk
(For gallery, tips and links)

awaldram

Link Posted 01/02/2013 - 12:44
Mike-P wrote:


The D300 is over 5 years old and its AF system has been upgraded a few times since in newer Nikon cameras. Do you not think that the K30 (which is not an entry level camera) autofocus should at least be on par with a 5 year old (no longer manufactured) body?.

Nope I think all manufacturers dumb down entry level cameras to hit a price point the k30 is no exception slow cpu with insufficient memory but passes the overriding criteria .....cheap.

The idea that these days entry level is in any way pushing the envelope is astonishing.

Your buying a product at a price level it will perform in line with its competitors no more no less.

As to the k5 these cameras AF faster than the d7000 so undoubtedly out pace the d300 where the k5 fails is in tracking where it predictive AF is a little crude

The K5ii with its expanding AF may be better but built on that same ASIC is likely to be found wanting, but then again it is 3year old tech the k5ii is built on.

walt

Link Posted 01/02/2013 - 16:36
dcweather wrote:
Just been out in the lovely sunshine and again found my K-30 lacking in autofocus speed. I've seen an improvement over K-r but not massive.Two ducks we were watching took off so there wasn't a massive re-focus need by my DA* 300mm. Swung round and panned but just couldn't hit the focus. My friend with his aged Nikon D300 and also a 300mm prime got them both no problem. This happens time and time again and I have spoken to other Pentax birders who say the same. The question is, then, why can't Pentax match this old technology with their otherwise competition beating cameras?

I've been quite impressed with the af speed of both my K-r and my K-30 using the FA*300 F4.5 which is a screw drive lens. I haven't done any rigorous testing but it feels almost as quick to lock onto subjects as my Canon 30D and sigma 100-300 F4 HSM lens. Being screw drive I suppose it's af speed can improve with each new camera motor, I wonder if the improvements you are not seeing could be down to the SDM motor in the lens? Also to add I've been using AA's eneloops since getting both but just tried the li-ion Dli109 and have noted an obvious af improvement with both the K-r and the K-30, you can actually hear a pitch change in the internal motor as well. Are you running on AA's or Li-ion?
The other thing I've noted with my K-30 is when it goes to sleep there is a very noticable delay before it wakes up on half press of the shutter, this is causing me to miss some flying birds, this isn't a problem with my K-r, GX10 or K100D they all wake up almost instantly. Have you noticed this? It's fine if the camera hasn't gone into it's save power mode....
P.S. I'd consider myself a pentax birder as well link

johnriley

Link Posted 01/02/2013 - 16:49
You can turn off power save mode and the battery can take it without too much difficulty.
Best regards, John

walt

Link Posted 01/02/2013 - 17:02
johnriley wrote:
You can turn off power save mode and the battery can take it without too much difficulty.

Done, thanks, well set to 30mins... I kept meaning to read the manual on this but never quite got round to it

dcweather

Link Posted 01/02/2013 - 17:20
Just for the record I always use the back button for focusing and release priority. Incidentally I am beginning to wonder if my DA*300 lens has a bit of a focusing problem itself. If I focus on say a fence 10 metres away and then a church in the distance it just can't see the church. Nothing much happens till I manually focus it nearer infinity then it finds it. It seems to be better at other times so maybe an intermittent fault somewhere. Sigma 150-500 HSM seems much quicker.

dcweather

Link Posted 01/02/2013 - 17:26
awaldram wrote:
Mike-P wrote:


The D300 is over 5 years old and its AF system has been upgraded a few times since in newer Nikon cameras. Do you not think that the K30 (which is not an entry level camera) autofocus should at least be on par with a 5 year old (no longer manufactured) body?.

Nope I think all manufacturers dumb down entry level cameras to hit a price point the k30 is no exception slow cpu with insufficient memory but passes the overriding criteria .....cheap.

The idea that these days entry level is in any way pushing the envelope is astonishing.

Your buying a product at a price level it will perform in line with its competitors no more no less.

As to the k5 these cameras AF faster than the d7000 so undoubtedly out pace the d300 where the k5 fails is in tracking where it predictive AF is a little crude

The K5ii with its expanding AF may be better but built on that same ASIC is likely to be found wanting, but then again it is 3year old tech the k5ii is built on.

--------------------------------------------
I'm not sure where you get the idea that the K-30 is some third rate entry level camera from. You would notice very little difference from your K-5. The "experts" and others on here spent a good deal of consideration as to what would be the better buy between the two when the K-30 came out and while the older K5 retained some advantages autofocus ability and image quality were not generally considered to be the main ones.
Dave

awaldram

Link Posted 01/02/2013 - 18:16
dcweather wrote:
awaldram wrote:


Nope I think all manufacturers dumb down entry level cameras to hit a price point the k30 is no exception slow cpu with insufficient memory but passes the overriding criteria .....cheap.

.

--------------------------------------------
I'm not sure where you get the idea that the K-30 is some third rate entry level camera from. You would notice very little difference from your K-5. The "experts" and others on here spent a good deal of consideration as to what would be the better buy between the two when the K-30 came out and while the older K5 retained some advantages autofocus ability and image quality were not generally considered to be the main ones.
Dave

Ere ?? Strawman alert I said it was entry level not third rate.

You tell me which Pentax Dslr is marketed below the k30 and we'll raise the assessment, its entry level.

Where is the mic input hdmi , extended bracketing , fast shutter etc etc

If you really want to see the longevity of the k30 as a system camera then have a look ate accessories in your manual..!!

Though your right its IQ from the sensor is probably better than my K5 I don't see it as a pxssing contest , The K30 is a great camera but entry level and practically throw away it also is.

It built to a price and that price is low. Considerably lower than it's RRP today.

As to the general 'worth' of the two cameras Vs each other thats a tough one.
If you want a cheap camera that does the job have no expectation or need for anything more than the basic body and a few lens then the k30 probably ticks more boxes.
If your on a budget and want a camera that will grow with your needs then the k5 is a better option as the k30 has little growing room.

With their respective feature set they both very much sit in their respective classes , just as today the 10 year old 1d still shows itself a pro camera even if unable to match the worse Sony on sale today for IQ.
Last Edited by awaldram on 01/02/2013 - 18:22
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