Sell me something wide...


petrochemist

Link Posted 11/01/2014 - 09:50
bwlchmawr wrote:
Start saving by all means but I'd try to beg or borrow the lens of your choice before committing to buy one.

The effect they produce is very different but it is often not natural. Now you may well like the extreme distortion and even seek subject to exploit it but not everyone does and even a Sigma 10-20 is an expensive paper-weight.

I wanted a 10-20 very much but, through the kindness of s fellow forum member, was fortunate enough to have the use of one for a morning which cured me for ever.

A wide angle adapter will let you try out compositions too. The IQ won't be up to a dedicated lens but mine are easily good enough for web use.
Mike
.
Pentax:K5ii, K7, K100D, DA18-55, DA10-17, DA55-300, DA50-200, F100-300, F50, DA35 AL, 4* M50, 2* M135, Helicoid extension, Tak 300 f4 (& 6 film bodies)
3rd Party: Bigmos (Sigma 150-500mm OS HSM),2* 28mm, 100mm macro, 28-200 zoom, 35-80 zoom, 80-200 zoom, 80-210 zoom, 300mm M42, 600 mirror, 1000-4000 scope, 50mm M42, enlarger lenses, Sony & micro 4/3 cameras with various PK mounts, Zenit E...
Far to many tele-converters, adapters, project parts & extension tubes etc.

.[size=11:].Flickr WPF Panoramio

McGregNi

Link Posted 11/01/2014 - 10:39
I think its wise to be cautious. Because good composition at ultra-wide angles often depend on very close detailed foreground and tight edge framing, I feel that IQ quality is very important right to the edges with these lenses. That's why I bought the Samyang 14mm, as opposed to a similarly priced zoom.

I admire the compositions of the castle & abbey shots shown above, but the distortions are not comfortable, and the resolution of the shots is fairly terrible. For me that would be a price too high to pay just for the added flexibility of a zoom
My Guides to the Pentax Digital Camera Flash Lighting System : Download here from the PentaxForums Homepage Article .... link
Pentax K7 with BG-4 Grip / Samyang 14mm f2.8 ED AS IF UMC / DA18-55mm f3.5-5.6 AL WR / SMC A28mm f2.8 / D FA 28-105mm / SMC F35-70 f3.5-4.5 / SMC A50mm f1.7 / Tamron AF70-300mm f4-5.6 Di LD macro / SMC M75-150mm f4.0 / Tamron Adaptall (CT-135) 135mm f2.8 / Asahi Takumar-A 2X tele-converter / Pentax AF-540FGZ (I & II) Flashes / Cactus RF60/X Flashes & V6/V6II Transceiver
Last Edited by McGregNi on 11/01/2014 - 10:39

sterretje

Link Posted 11/01/2014 - 10:57
bwlchmawr wrote:
Start saving by all means but I'd try to beg or borrow the lens of your choice before committing to buy one.

A bit difficult over here. We have a local lensrentals and they only do Canon and Nikon

bwlchmawr wrote:
The effect they produce is very different but it is often not natural. Now you may well like the extreme distortion and even seek subject to exploit it but not everyone does and even a Sigma 10-20 is an expensive paper-weight.

I'm fully aware of it and I don't like it either; hence the comment / question. I hate it when 90 degree angles don't look like 90 degree. But I see a trip (back) to Europe coming and I like to have the option to use a UWA zoom for indoor churches, cathedrals and castles.

bwlchmawr wrote:
I wanted a 10-20 very much but, through the kindness of s fellow forum member, was fortunate enough to have the use of one for a morning which cured me for ever.



I will basically only use it for above; I'm more than happy with my default kit consisting of 31 and 100; I usually don't have a need for wider or longer.
Pentax K10D + Vivitar 55/2.8 macro + Super Takumar 55/1.8 + SuperMultiCoated Takumar 85/1.8 + SuperMultiCoated Takumar 135/3.5 + SuperMultiCoated Takumar 200/4 + Super Takumar 300/4
Pentax K100D + DA18-55ALII + DA55-300
Pentax K5 + FA31Ltd + M50/1.7 + DFA100WR + M120/2.8 (+ DA18-55WR at occasion)
Last Edited by sterretje on 11/01/2014 - 10:58

McBrian

Link Posted 11/01/2014 - 11:42
Quote:
I admire the compositions of the castle & abbey shots shown above, but the distortions are not comfortable, and the resolution of the shots is fairly terrible. For me that would be a price too high to pay just for the added flexibility of a zoom

Would you care to elaborate??
Cheers
Brian.
LBA is good for you, a Lens a day helps you work, rest and play.

Gwyn

Link Posted 11/01/2014 - 11:51
I had a Sigma 10-20. I sold it as it was in danger of becoming a paperweight. I really didn't like it for my sort of photography. Some people manage fantastic results with them, but not me.

I now use either my Pentax 17-70 or 18-135, and find both are normally wide enough. Tbh I'd rather stitch a few photos together if I have to than use a UWA again.

If you are only planning on using an UWA when visiting the UK/Europe maybe you can hire one for your trip from SRS.

Chrism8

Link Posted 11/01/2014 - 11:52
I love the extreme wide angles, I startd with a Sigi 10-17 then moved to a Pentax DA 10-17 cos of the extra field of view, 180 deg.

Its not a lens that's used weekly or even monthly, but its great for some really unusual shots. I shot the image below at a bird of prey day in Gloucester a couple of years ago.


Chris

www.chrismillsphotography.co.uk

" A Hangover is something that occupies the Head you neglected to use the night before".

-------------------------------------------------------------
K1 - Sigma 85mm F1.4, Pentax 150 -450 F4.5 / 5.6, Pentax FA 24 - 70 F2.8

Sigma 100-300 F4, Samyang 14mm F2.8, Pentax 70-200 F2.8

K3iii + K3ii + K5iis converted to IR, Sigma 17 - 70 F2.8, Pentax 55 - 300 F4.5 / F5.6 PLM

McGregNi

Link Posted 11/01/2014 - 14:44
McBrian wrote:
Quote:
I admire the compositions of the castle & abbey shots shown above, but the distortions are not comfortable, and the resolution of the shots is fairly terrible. For me that would be a price too high to pay just for the added flexibility of a zoom

Would you care to elaborate??

I'm not criticising your photography, the shots are very well taken and framed - I'm saying that the apparent 'resolution' of the lens is poor, resulting in softness and lack of fine detail. I don't know if this could be improved with a different aperture, but I see this as a weakness in ultra-wide angle zooms, as opposed to a prime like my Samyang 14mm.

The point was that the prime offered edge to edge high quality resolution, a quality I think is important for this type of photgraphy due to the need to place close foreground interest and edge objects.

Zooms are a compromise in this respect, but the prime makes you move around more.
My Guides to the Pentax Digital Camera Flash Lighting System : Download here from the PentaxForums Homepage Article .... link
Pentax K7 with BG-4 Grip / Samyang 14mm f2.8 ED AS IF UMC / DA18-55mm f3.5-5.6 AL WR / SMC A28mm f2.8 / D FA 28-105mm / SMC F35-70 f3.5-4.5 / SMC A50mm f1.7 / Tamron AF70-300mm f4-5.6 Di LD macro / SMC M75-150mm f4.0 / Tamron Adaptall (CT-135) 135mm f2.8 / Asahi Takumar-A 2X tele-converter / Pentax AF-540FGZ (I & II) Flashes / Cactus RF60/X Flashes & V6/V6II Transceiver

ronniemac

Link Posted 11/01/2014 - 15:26
Recently bought a used Pentax 12-24 and am very pleased with it; highly recommended. A good overlap with the wide end of the 18-55 or 18-135 means it can stay on the camera for longer than a wider zoom. I know this sounds counter rational but in practice it means less swapping of lenses in the field.

There is no doubt that best use of a wide angle requires more photographic skill than I probably have, but we (the lens and I) are working on it. The additional potential of being able to go down to 12mm wide offers a great deal more than 18 - and is quite enough for me. At the moment I just use it for landscape and architecture; got into trouble for taking a couple of portraits with it!

Very impressed with Smeggypants' use of 10-17 for pano (and a couple of his Slutwalk snaps), amazing depth of field in McBrian's, and of course the dramatic effect of getting up close and personal with Chris' owl! These illustrate the some of the expanded potential of going wide angle.

McBrian

Link Posted 11/01/2014 - 17:29
Quote:
I'm not criticising your photography, the shots are very well taken and framed - I'm saying that the apparent 'resolution' of the lens is poor, resulting in softness and lack of fine detail. I don't know if this could be improved with a different aperture, but I see this as a weakness in ultra-wide angle zooms, as opposed to a prime like my Samyang 14mm.

The point was that the prime offered edge to edge high quality resolution, a quality I think is important for this type of photgraphy due to the need to place close foreground interest and edge objects.

Nigel,

I don't want to spark a heavy discussion but can you put your half full hat on for a wee while, your being pretty hard on a lens (and my quick and dirty pp) to judge a 1000 x 1000 pix web image on what I suspect will be a >1600pix monitor.

If you search the web and read the reviews of this lens it gets a lot more pass marks than fail mark, I'll accept a few flaws for the versatility and cost effectiveness of a zoom over the cost of 2 or 3 primes to cover said FL range.

IIRC: the DA12-24 although a cracking lens has very complicated and hard to correct distortion (especially at 12m), at least it did when I had a copy but I also didn't have LR at the time
Cheers
Brian.
LBA is good for you, a Lens a day helps you work, rest and play.
Last Edited by McBrian on 11/01/2014 - 17:31

Mike-P

Link Posted 11/01/2014 - 18:38
I use my Sigma 12-24mm mainly for people shots, I love the distortion it gives ... almost looks like you are sitting on the floor shooting upwards.






. My Flickr

McGregNi

Link Posted 11/01/2014 - 20:32
McBrian wrote:
Quote:
....The point was that the prime offered edge to edge high quality resolution, a quality I think is important for this type of photgraphy due to the need to place close foreground interest and edge objects.

Nigel, I don't want to spark a heavy discussion but can you put your half full hat on for a wee while, your being pretty hard on a lens (and my quick and dirty pp) to judge a 1000 x 1000 pix web image on what I suspect will be a >1600pix monitor.

Half full hat on and overflowing (if that means anything )

No, we don't need any big discussion of course. I just wanted to put the case for Primes - either choice is personal, and both involve compromise. In my case, I have to walk around more to compose and focus manually. With the zooms under discussion you have AF and the extra flexibility over focal length, but I feel the IQ compromise is significant.

I fully accept that for many types of shots, such as some shown here, this may not be significant. I just make the point that for my particular use of the wide angle, I don't feel I could take that hit - I need the edge to edge resolution and consistent high resolving powerdue to the subject matter.


Here's some examples of the Samyang 14mm prime, just to balance things up , but mainly to show what I mean about the edge to edge resolution.




























Bear in mind that this is a 'Full Frame' lens, so distortions will be greater at the actual image circle edge on FF, but reports on Nikon cameras record equal resolution right up to the true edge in fact.
My Guides to the Pentax Digital Camera Flash Lighting System : Download here from the PentaxForums Homepage Article .... link
Pentax K7 with BG-4 Grip / Samyang 14mm f2.8 ED AS IF UMC / DA18-55mm f3.5-5.6 AL WR / SMC A28mm f2.8 / D FA 28-105mm / SMC F35-70 f3.5-4.5 / SMC A50mm f1.7 / Tamron AF70-300mm f4-5.6 Di LD macro / SMC M75-150mm f4.0 / Tamron Adaptall (CT-135) 135mm f2.8 / Asahi Takumar-A 2X tele-converter / Pentax AF-540FGZ (I & II) Flashes / Cactus RF60/X Flashes & V6/V6II Transceiver

jemx99

Link Posted 12/01/2014 - 21:42
I had the Sigma 10 to 20 but was disappointed by it's resolution at any f number however Brian's, Mike's and Nigels shots all look pretty decent to me - I've been ok with the 16mm end of my 16-45 for a bit but thinking of going for the Sigma 8-16 when I have the spare cash!

giofi

Link Posted 12/01/2014 - 22:07
McGregNi wrote:
[Zooms are a compromise in this respect, but the prime makes you move around more.

Can you please explain how you get a 8mm angle of view by walking around with a 14mm lens?
Giorgio

Pentax Photo Gallery

davidstorm

Link Posted 12/01/2014 - 22:32
giofi wrote:
McGregNi wrote:
[Zooms are a compromise in this respect, but the prime makes you move around more.

Can you please explain how you get a 8mm angle of view by walking around with a 14mm lens?

By making a panorama

I can't see anything in terms of resolution in Nigel's images that my 12-24 couldn't do? But then, I'm viewing them at 800px on a 1920 monitor!

The 12-24's measured resolution is actually higher than a good few primes, including some in production by Pentax at the moment. Not sure if this is the case across the frame, but the 12-24 is one sharp lens and is much sharper than the Sigma 10-20 based on comparisons I've been able to make. Of course, someone could prove me wrong!

Regards
David
Flickr

Nicola's Apartments, Kassiopi, Corfu

Some cameras, some lenses, some bits 'n' bobs

McGregNi

Link Posted 13/01/2014 - 19:56
I clearly wasn't saying you can get an 8mm field of view with a 14mm ! It was a simple point about zoom vs prime pros & cons. I see many questions here about the various wide-angle zoom options for Pentax, and not so many about the primes - I just wanted to put the case for primes, and explain something about my own consierations when I decided.

Another factor I didn't mention was the 'future-proofing' element I factored in, thinking that my next Pentax may be a 'full frame', and the Samyang 14 will offer a spectacular field of view on FF - but with the high resolution of the lens and FF sensor combination then cropping won't be much of a problem I'd imagine.

David, I agree its probably not really possible to assess the finer points of the resolution here on this forum - we'd probably have to look at the charts for that. My main point about the prime was that it offered a very strong and consistent resolution performance across the whole image circle, and the whole aperture range as well. I don't believe many zooms can match this - that was the compromise I was identifying, and contrasting that with the advantage of the variable focal length of a zoom.
My Guides to the Pentax Digital Camera Flash Lighting System : Download here from the PentaxForums Homepage Article .... link
Pentax K7 with BG-4 Grip / Samyang 14mm f2.8 ED AS IF UMC / DA18-55mm f3.5-5.6 AL WR / SMC A28mm f2.8 / D FA 28-105mm / SMC F35-70 f3.5-4.5 / SMC A50mm f1.7 / Tamron AF70-300mm f4-5.6 Di LD macro / SMC M75-150mm f4.0 / Tamron Adaptall (CT-135) 135mm f2.8 / Asahi Takumar-A 2X tele-converter / Pentax AF-540FGZ (I & II) Flashes / Cactus RF60/X Flashes & V6/V6II Transceiver
Last Edited by McGregNi on 13/01/2014 - 19:59
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