Outdoor On-Camera Flash Examples


McGregNi

Link Posted 28/03/2017 - 18:21
I just noticed the last photo of my series here, the one of the two girls with Swanage bay in behind ..... this shows the difference that the 1/4 CTO gel makes, as this is the only shot WITHOUT a gel on. This shot is using HSS, as a 'fast' shutter speed was needed to reduce the bright background. But you can see the colour of the faces, which has a cooler tone to the other photos in the series. That's the effect of daylight WB with uncorrected, not gelled, flash. I don't mind it there, but probably the warmer look in the other shots is better overall, and of course especially necessary when the sun is lower and tones are warm anyway.
My Guides to the Pentax Digital Camera Flash Lighting System : Download here from the PentaxForums Homepage Article .... link
Pentax K7 with BG-4 Grip / Samyang 14mm f2.8 ED AS IF UMC / DA18-55mm f3.5-5.6 AL WR / SMC A28mm f2.8 / D FA 28-105mm / SMC F35-70 f3.5-4.5 / SMC A50mm f1.7 / Tamron AF70-300mm f4-5.6 Di LD macro / SMC M75-150mm f4.0 / Tamron Adaptall (CT-135) 135mm f2.8 / Asahi Takumar-A 2X tele-converter / Pentax AF-540FGZ (I & II) Flashes / Cactus RF60/X Flashes & V6/V6II Transceiver
Last Edited by McGregNi on 28/03/2017 - 18:23

richandfleur

Link Posted 28/03/2017 - 20:37
Do you use manual settings to drop the background and guarantee the settings are consistent?

Am rather struggling with how you can use the P-TTL for the automation/autoness of it all, but at the same time retain some control of settings, perhaps via exposure compensation etc.

Re the gel, your processing on these shots seems very warm in general, so being that in mind yeah, the gel looks very complementary to this. All good examples there.

cardiffgareth

Link Posted 28/03/2017 - 21:13



Well I'm going to be using these, several studio heads, a fish tank, a lime and a nail varnish bottle BUT! Not all in that order and all indoors
Gareth
Welsh Photographer

My outfit: K1 gripped - Pentax DFA 28-105mm - Sigma 70-200mm HSM Macro - Sigma 105mm - Pentax FA 35mm f2 - Tokina 20-35mm, Sigma 50-500mm - Pentax AF 540 FGZ Ii

My Flickr

My 500px

McGregNi

Link Posted 28/03/2017 - 21:16
(Gareth, you jumped in there! ..... great, are you going to be making yellow and pink flash gels, or yellow and pink fish????)

Richard, thanks, I'm glad you've seen these shots .... I imagine you and I will be on very much the same wavelength in terms of likely subjects for our flash photos! As a quick reference and to put a Pentax specific angle onto it, please refer back to my Guide (the 2nd Edition, I think you probably have that), and check out the section on 'Understanding Flash & Ambient Exposures' / 'Controls for Flash & Ambient Exposure'; pages 25 - 27. It makes no difference that you have a Shanny flash .... all the principles and practical stuff is the same.

So we are balancing the two, and the actual means of controlling them depends on the working camera mode (for ambient exposure) and the working flash mode (for the flash exposure). There are only two camera exposure modes that I use for flash photography .... M or Av. They are the only ones that I consider to be really logical and intuitive personally.

If using Manual mode , then the background exposure will most logically be controlled by adjustments to the time value (shutter 'speed') ...

If using Av mode, then the background exposure will be controlled with the camera exposure compensation setting.

In P-TTL Flash mode, then the flash exposure is controlled with the Flash Compensation setting (set on the flash, or via the camera flash screen setting)

In Manual flash mode the flash exposure is controlled with the Flash Power ratio setting (set on the flash) (but distance, aperture and ISO also directly affect manual flash exposure).

In these examples here I have used P-TTL exclusively for the flash exposures .... the adjustments I made to the flash compensation will have varied, anything from around -1.7 through to +1.7 ..... this often depends on how much of the frame is taken up with the subject. Very close in faces will usually require more + compensation.

I have used a mixture of Manual camera mode and Av mode for the ambient exposures ..... it depends on the situation. In more fluid, dynamic places (like the playground ones) I'll use Av, and for the more static ones (like the ones at the coast in the evening) then I used M mode. With Av mode I will generally set approx. -0.5 through to -1.5 stops compensation. For M mode working then I will dial the shutter 'speed' shorter than the metered indication, again to around half to 1.5 stops under the metered value. Obviously I'll then take a test shot and adjust as needed.

It can help to have the flash off at first while setting your preferred ambient exposure .... this keeps things simple and allows you to concentrate on one thing at a time. Once you have set and fixed your ambient exposure, then switch on the flash and allow its effect to mix in .... another test shot or two and make the flash compensation adjustments as needed .... then you're ready to just keep on shooting!
My Guides to the Pentax Digital Camera Flash Lighting System : Download here from the PentaxForums Homepage Article .... link
Pentax K7 with BG-4 Grip / Samyang 14mm f2.8 ED AS IF UMC / DA18-55mm f3.5-5.6 AL WR / SMC A28mm f2.8 / D FA 28-105mm / SMC F35-70 f3.5-4.5 / SMC A50mm f1.7 / Tamron AF70-300mm f4-5.6 Di LD macro / SMC M75-150mm f4.0 / Tamron Adaptall (CT-135) 135mm f2.8 / Asahi Takumar-A 2X tele-converter / Pentax AF-540FGZ (I & II) Flashes / Cactus RF60/X Flashes & V6/V6II Transceiver
Last Edited by McGregNi on 28/03/2017 - 21:32

richandfleur

Link Posted 28/03/2017 - 22:34
Ok, a lot of things to try there.

Quick check, do the flash settings on the camera affect the external flash?

(Basic check to confirm this, or if they relate to the internal flash only. Assume a non flash equipped body like the K-3ii still has these flash control options?)

Need to determine how much to modify on the body and how much to modify on the flash itself...

Really appreciate the guidance.

McGregNi

Link Posted 28/03/2017 - 23:04
No problem , any excuse to babble on about flash with Pentax cameras, that's my purpose in life

The flash compensation settings, for an on-camera flash, can be made either on the flash itself or with the camera FC setting (on the flash mode screen). They can actually be used together and their effect cumulates. But really, the most direct and intuitive way is to just stick with the flash set one ....that way you're controlling the flash exposure from the flash control, and the ambient exposure with the camera controls (and that's all nice and neat!).

For the run down on the newer cameras and their flash modes etc then check out that other recent thread I put on here, that has a new section on 'Pentax DSLR Models and Flash Options' which will form part of the new Guide supplement in future.

Basically, for your on-camera Shanny flash work, then just set the default 'flash on' mode on the camera.
My Guides to the Pentax Digital Camera Flash Lighting System : Download here from the PentaxForums Homepage Article .... link
Pentax K7 with BG-4 Grip / Samyang 14mm f2.8 ED AS IF UMC / DA18-55mm f3.5-5.6 AL WR / SMC A28mm f2.8 / D FA 28-105mm / SMC F35-70 f3.5-4.5 / SMC A50mm f1.7 / Tamron AF70-300mm f4-5.6 Di LD macro / SMC M75-150mm f4.0 / Tamron Adaptall (CT-135) 135mm f2.8 / Asahi Takumar-A 2X tele-converter / Pentax AF-540FGZ (I & II) Flashes / Cactus RF60/X Flashes & V6/V6II Transceiver
Last Edited by McGregNi on 28/03/2017 - 23:04

richandfleur

Link Posted 28/03/2017 - 23:39
I like the approach Nigel, that helps.

Yeah I realised there were options for rear curtain sync modes on the camera and the flash for example.

I like the idea of just setting the camera to flash, and adjusting flash settings on the flash itself.

If the lighting conditions are constant then manual on both seems safe. If the conditions are changing, then you'd want some form of automation in there somewhere.

Cheers.

McGregNi

Link Posted 29/03/2017 - 16:02
Yes, that's the case in principle. Personally, for all on-camera flash work, I use P-TTL mode (with autofocus lenses). I just find it far more intuitive to let the automatic flash metering do its stuff, adjust as needed with the compensation. (which uses the logical units of 'stops', and is therefore easy to relate to in relation to the ambient exposure).

Juggling manual mode flash power with an on-camera flash is quite fiddly I find, especially given that the circumstances for on - camera flash work are usually quite fluid and dynamic.
My Guides to the Pentax Digital Camera Flash Lighting System : Download here from the PentaxForums Homepage Article .... link
Pentax K7 with BG-4 Grip / Samyang 14mm f2.8 ED AS IF UMC / DA18-55mm f3.5-5.6 AL WR / SMC A28mm f2.8 / D FA 28-105mm / SMC F35-70 f3.5-4.5 / SMC A50mm f1.7 / Tamron AF70-300mm f4-5.6 Di LD macro / SMC M75-150mm f4.0 / Tamron Adaptall (CT-135) 135mm f2.8 / Asahi Takumar-A 2X tele-converter / Pentax AF-540FGZ (I & II) Flashes / Cactus RF60/X Flashes & V6/V6II Transceiver

Papa_Lazarou

Link Posted 29/03/2017 - 16:15
I shoot flash like NIgel. Manual exposure and P-TTL for on-camera flash. I just ride the flash exposure compensation, whilst being mindful of distance to subject and ISO setting. For off-camera flash it's manual power adjustment.
My Flickr Page: http://www.flickr.com/photos/philnmorgan/
Last Edited by Papa_Lazarou on 29/03/2017 - 16:17

autumnlight

Link Posted 29/03/2017 - 17:40
As always thank you for your advise on flash as you say it certainly does make the subject pop better, i've never heard of these gels.
Gorgeous children by the way!
Kind regards Maria

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Maria-Gray-photography/589310071158079?ref=hl
Last Edited by autumnlight on 29/03/2017 - 17:45

McGregNi

Link Posted 29/03/2017 - 21:20
Thanks Papa and Maria ....

The colour correction type of gel is used for mixed lighting situations, where different light sources have different colour temperatures. The classis case is indoors with dim, very warm tungsten lighting (like our houses, or a pub, or even many event venues). If we want to allow some of that ambient light to register, then we need to set the 'Tungsten' white balance setting on the camera. This will 'correct' the warm lighting by adding plenty of blue into the image, making it look more natural, as our eyes do automatically.

However, if you then add flash light into that mix, there is a problem .... because flash light is coloured very similar to 'Daylight', with the Tungsten WB setting this will make the flash light look very blue .... so peoples faces will look bluish and strange. So the solution is to add a 'correction to the correction ' .... by placing an orange gel onto the flash head, the colour of the flash light is brought into line with the warm tungsten of the room lights .... and because this has already been corrected by the camera WB setting, so then the same setting deals with the flash light too, making both the room lights and the flash look natural

The gel for this situation is a 'Full CTO ('Colour Temperature Orange')' . There are different strengths available in packs of gels, usually a 1/2 CTO and 1/4 CTO. These are for times when the tungseten lighting is not that warm .... or as I find, they are very helpful as in my portraits here, where I like the warmth of the low sun to record .... so I will tweak my Daylight WB setting towards the warm position. In order to correct the colder flash light and balance the skins tones with this warmer background, then I use the 1/2 or 1/4 CTO gels on the flash.
My Guides to the Pentax Digital Camera Flash Lighting System : Download here from the PentaxForums Homepage Article .... link
Pentax K7 with BG-4 Grip / Samyang 14mm f2.8 ED AS IF UMC / DA18-55mm f3.5-5.6 AL WR / SMC A28mm f2.8 / D FA 28-105mm / SMC F35-70 f3.5-4.5 / SMC A50mm f1.7 / Tamron AF70-300mm f4-5.6 Di LD macro / SMC M75-150mm f4.0 / Tamron Adaptall (CT-135) 135mm f2.8 / Asahi Takumar-A 2X tele-converter / Pentax AF-540FGZ (I & II) Flashes / Cactus RF60/X Flashes & V6/V6II Transceiver
Last Edited by McGregNi on 29/03/2017 - 21:22

Papa_Lazarou

Link Posted 29/03/2017 - 22:11
Nigel, have you tried CTS (colour to straw) gels?
Similar to CTO, but i find it better for skin tones- less red. I have a couple of large sheets of 1/4 and 1/2 - can post you some cuts to try if you like? PM me your address and I'll pop some in the post (strictly free of charge).
My Flickr Page: http://www.flickr.com/photos/philnmorgan/
Last Edited by Papa_Lazarou on 29/03/2017 - 22:12

cardiffgareth

Link Posted 29/03/2017 - 22:35
Have you got a pic with them on white paper to get an idea of colour?
Gareth
Welsh Photographer

My outfit: K1 gripped - Pentax DFA 28-105mm - Sigma 70-200mm HSM Macro - Sigma 105mm - Pentax FA 35mm f2 - Tokina 20-35mm, Sigma 50-500mm - Pentax AF 540 FGZ Ii

My Flickr

My 500px

Papa_Lazarou

Link Posted 29/03/2017 - 22:57
How about i post some to you Gareth?
Please PM your address and I'll get some off in the next couple of days.
My Flickr Page: http://www.flickr.com/photos/philnmorgan/

McGregNi

Link Posted 30/03/2017 - 13:59
Papa_Lazarou wrote:
Nigel, have you tried CTS (colour to straw) gels?
Similar to CTO, but i find it better for skin tones- less red. I have a couple of large sheets of 1/4 and 1/2 - can post you some cuts to try if you like? PM me your address and I'll pop some in the post (strictly free of charge).

I've seen photos of them in flash books, but my own Rogue set doesn't have them, just the 3 tones of orange. I generally use the weak 1/4 CTO, and as mentioned earlier, outdoors I often go for the warmer look on the WB setting. But I'd love to try a bit of CTS! So I'll send you a message, thanks
My Guides to the Pentax Digital Camera Flash Lighting System : Download here from the PentaxForums Homepage Article .... link
Pentax K7 with BG-4 Grip / Samyang 14mm f2.8 ED AS IF UMC / DA18-55mm f3.5-5.6 AL WR / SMC A28mm f2.8 / D FA 28-105mm / SMC F35-70 f3.5-4.5 / SMC A50mm f1.7 / Tamron AF70-300mm f4-5.6 Di LD macro / SMC M75-150mm f4.0 / Tamron Adaptall (CT-135) 135mm f2.8 / Asahi Takumar-A 2X tele-converter / Pentax AF-540FGZ (I & II) Flashes / Cactus RF60/X Flashes & V6/V6II Transceiver
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