Off camera flash question

Update: just received a Pentax F 5P cable for flash and a hot shoe adapter F (I had ordered an off-camera F adaptor). The cable has 5-pin connectors so doesn't fit into the X-sync socket of the K-1 as I had expected. So, what does fit into the camera socket? Nothing in Pentax accessories as far as I can tell. Seriously p****d off, just spent £67.00 and the only way I can use this stuff is to buy an off-camera adaptor as well. Can anyone tell me the point of Pentax fitting a flash cable socket to their new cameras if nothing they make fits?

Just found the off-camera adaptor is £79.00 if I can order one, what a rip-off.

Hot Shoe adapter F on the camera, 5P lead into side of Hot Shoe adapter, other end of 5P lead into AF540 - doesn't that do it?

That would be operational, but you still need a way to support the flash - the off-camera adapter F does this job - it has a male cold-shoe on the bottom which also has a thread for a tripod mount. It doesn't really need the female hot-shoe on top and the 5P connector on the side, because you can put the lead straight into the flash. This is a bit cheaper:

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Derek

Thanks LennyBloke, unfortunately neither of my Pentax flashes have a socket for a cable connection and the instructions show using these mounts (different references just to confuse even more). I am thinking that this cable set-up is a hangover from before the cameras used a wireless flash trigger but I would have thought the Pentax philosophy would be to make current stuff backwards compatible. Very confusing parts reference which Pentax don't help to clarify, as there are four different adaptors. There are two virtually identical, one with a hot-shoe mount for putting on the camera and another with a screw thread for tripod mount, and suppliers not surprisingly seem to muddle them up. Clifton Cameras kindly looked into this and sent a link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SyHT7j_u96E . So far I haven't found a supplier for the off camera mount (tripod version) so i will simply have to find another F mount as I have a widget for putting a flash hot shoe onto a tripod head. Perhaps I am overthinking this but at the insane prices for these bits and their limited availability it is rather frustrating.

Rob, you have bought the accessories for using a P-TTL flash off camera, but you are missing one (I think). The other socket you referred to is the PC socket (I think), and that is a much simpler connection and provides only a basic trigger signal for manual flash systems (eg studio strobes). You should be using the PC socket on the camera in this situation.

Could you just clarify again which flashes you are trying to use, and are you wanting P-TTL or only manual flash exposures?

I'm not an 'extension cord' user, but as I understand it you will need 3 accessories ...

1) Hotshoe Adaptor FG (Goes on the Camera Hotshoe)

2) Extension Cord F5P (connects the two adaptors)

3) Off-Camera Shoe Adaptor F (Goes onto the bottom of the Flash)

The advantage of the extension cord / adaptor approach is that full 'off-camera' functioning is retained (ie the flash behaves as if it is on the camera) ...... so you keep nice things like HSS.

The advantage of going 'wireless' is, well, the lack of wires (!), plus you can work at greater distances, and the set-up arguably is simpler and quicker. The disadvantage of wireless is that you need 'line-of-sight' between the flashes, or at least some reflected light bouncing around to perform the triggering.

In your case as a user of a camera without built-in flash, then for wireless operation you need two wireless capable accessory flashes. Unfortunately the little AF201 doesn't offer this.

If you're happy with full manual working then go for the Cactus radio solution, and you get remote manual power control over your Pentax flash. There is a member at PentaxForums who has successfully profiled an AF201 for controlling with the Cactus V6. The AF-360FGZ / II has a pre-loaded profile on the Cactus units.

Hi, the flashes I use are the AF 201FG and AF 360 FGZ II, and I would like P-TTL if poss. More searching has revealed all the available adaptors with a tripod thread are imported from Japan, so to avoid import duty, vat etc (been caught before!) I'll just get another F adaptor discounted somewhere. My plan is for a lightweight portable option in the field for fill-in flash (AF 201FG) and for fill-in flash in architectural interiors.

Sorry Rob, I edited my previous post and added more information ...... you need the FG hotshoe adaptor also, which you didn't say you had ..... ?

Rob, I don't think you need the FG hot-shoe adapter. These are the available adapters:

Hot-shoe adapter F - has a male hot-shoe on the bottom, female hot-shoe on the top and 5P connector on the side. This can mount on the camera, where the signal from the camera will be sent both to a flash mounted on top and/or a flash connected at the other end of the 5P cable. If the flash you want to use at the other end of the cable does not have a 5P socket, you can use another hot-shoe adapter F there, but you need to have a means of mounting that flash to a stand, like a cheap flash mount to 1/4" thread adapter (a widget).

Hot-shoe adapter FG - has a male hot-shoe on the bottom and a 5P connector on the top. This is only for mounting on the camera. The only reason to use this in preference to hot-shoe adapter F is if you want to use the camera's pop-up flash, which would be obstructed by the cable inserted in the side of a hot-shoe adapter F.

Off-camera adapter F (not the same as hot-shoe adapter F) - has a male cold-shoe (i.e. no contacts) on the bottom and a 1/4" thread also. Has a female hot-shoe on the top and a 5P connector on the side.

For the K1 and flashes with no 5P connector, the best combination is two hot-shoe adapter F - use one on the camera, where you don't need to worry about a pop-up flash and it gives you the option to mount a flash on top as well as on the other end of the cable. Use the second hot-shoe adapter F at the other end of the cable with the cheap widget to convert the bottom to a 1/4" thread.

In this scenario, the hot-shoe adapter FG would needlessly stop you from mounting a flash on the camera and the off-camera adapter F is just a more expensive and handicapped hot-shoe adapter F - better to use the latter with a widget.

Rob, I think you have arrived at the best solution, even if it is more than you wanted to pay.

I've just got a K1 and am trying it out with my AF-540FGZ - this has a 5P connector on the side and I wasted my money a few years back on an off-camera adapter F when all I needed was a widget.

Phew - you wouldn't believe how many times I typed 'hot-show' by mistake whilst typing this!

Derek

I almost always type 'hot show' as well ! Thanks for that extra clarification on the various adaptors, which sure is looking like a rather confusing mix of equipment to pull together. I don't think Pentax have helped with their naming conventions here ..... two 'F' adaptors for different purposes is rather confusing

Has all this sort of thing really become old hat, now replaced by the more modern wireless techniques? The cable solution should ideally be the simple one, but I suspect is being used less and less nowadays as people favour either wireless P-TTL (optical) or third party radio manual systems.

When I bought the 540FGZ, I had a *ist DS, then later a K10D and a K5iis. I bought the adapters and cable then ditched them and used the Master/Slave optical wireless. With no pop-up flash, the K1 has made me dig out the cables again - so it's 'new hat' again!

Now that the K1 has built-in wi-fi, I wonder how long it will be before flashguns have it built-in too...

Thanks all for your carefully considered comments. My thinking is for the most lightweight and easy to set up option where there is no built-in flash trigger. So, a second full size flash would take space and increase weight, ditto with a radio trigger, and the added risk of batteries losing power and carrying extras in case. Where weight isn't an issue then the other options are available.

Wouldn't it be great if all the camera and flash manufacturers got together and defined an industry standard protocol for use over wifi whereby cameras and flashguns could exchange info about there capabilities and issue/receive commands.

Now that we have wifi, any other dedicated radio comms hardware is unnecessary.

There I go again, thinking like an engineer rather than a businessman.

And I don't think it'll happen in time to help you out, Rob!

well lets not pre-judge things, lets hope he has many many more years of flashing ahead !

If anything this thread has prompted me to look in more detail at the Pentax Extension cord accessories, not the least in order to improve the guidance on it in my 'Pentax Flash Guide' . I gave it cursory coverage up to now, both because of my own lack of experience with the cable options, and by seeing it as a more peripheral aspect. But this has shown that it has a new specific significance to owners of the latest flagship models ...

I have just finished writing part of a planned supplement document to my Guide, which covers the K1 and K3II and their flash modes and considerations for working without a Built-In unit. This cable solution now warrants better attention .

May I ask all of the participants here for your help ... would you be willing to provide some brief 'user summaries' of working with the cables on the new cameras, and more importantly, would anyone be happy to provide a few close-up images of the adaptors and cables with a release for publishing them in the Guide supplement and future updated versions ?. That would be a really big help and hopefully support more widespread knowledge going into the future. Please let me know and we can liaise via PM, thanks

Ok, will do. Just waiting for my second adaptor to complete the set-up. Like how it fits unobtrusively in the camera bag. I did look at the 2P adaptor but the socket is different and is described as a JIS-B type synch socket so is that the same as the one on the side of the K-1? This was released in 2013 whereas the three other adaptors to use with the cable have a five pin socket and were released in 2009 and give full functions like a flash mounted directly on the camera.

I use a Lastolite cable like this http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Lastolite-Nikon-Straight-TTL-Sync-Flash-Cable-Cord-3-M... but in Pentax fitting of course. Problem is I can't find anyone listing the Pentax fit at the moment. It works well (including PTTL) and I prefer the straight lead to the curly type because you actually get the stated length rather than some theoretical 'maximum length' which is usually about double that which can be comfortably reached by the curly lead. A short curly lead is neater if the flash unit is on a bracket though.