No more Pentax for me!...
Posted 10/10/2010 - 22:06
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Hyram, you impertinent so and so, you!
Your car analogy doesn't stand up. A car is a single, self contained object. A camera system consists of body, lenses and accessories. The lenses being the greater and more expensive part.
Your car analogy doesn't stand up. A car is a single, self contained object. A camera system consists of body, lenses and accessories. The lenses being the greater and more expensive part.
No man is worth his salt, who has not been banned from at least one Forum, and two Flickr groups.
Mowog.
Mowog.
Posted 10/10/2010 - 22:18
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Actually I thought Hyrams Analogy was quite good
But it would have been easier to say "you pay your money and take your choice" and thereby put yourself at the mercy of the manufacturer, no good crying over spilled milk when you Betamax video turns out to be the non runner or your investment with fly-by-night savings goes belly up.
Just look on the bright side, you could have chosen a Canon system and been delighted at the release of a full frame body, then deflated when you realise all your old lenses wont fit
But it would have been easier to say "you pay your money and take your choice" and thereby put yourself at the mercy of the manufacturer, no good crying over spilled milk when you Betamax video turns out to be the non runner or your investment with fly-by-night savings goes belly up.
Just look on the bright side, you could have chosen a Canon system and been delighted at the release of a full frame body, then deflated when you realise all your old lenses wont fit
Posted 10/10/2010 - 22:19
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For what its worth, here is my take.
My first Pentax was a Spotmatic, followed by several later film models. When the SLR market went digital, I waited. A work colleague bought a istD. Frankly, I was unimpressed. It seemed clunky and awkward, most un-Pentax like. And his particular model was prone to problems.
It seemed to me that it was not until the K10 that Pentax produced a DSLR that seemed worthy of the pedigree. Mowog, perhaps you just need a week or two with a current model?
My first Pentax was a Spotmatic, followed by several later film models. When the SLR market went digital, I waited. A work colleague bought a istD. Frankly, I was unimpressed. It seemed clunky and awkward, most un-Pentax like. And his particular model was prone to problems.
It seemed to me that it was not until the K10 that Pentax produced a DSLR that seemed worthy of the pedigree. Mowog, perhaps you just need a week or two with a current model?
Posted 10/10/2010 - 22:21
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JonSchick wrote:
yes I agree about the borders.Anvh wrote:
Because the sensor is smaller a smaller part of the lens is used so any fault there will be larger relative compared to a larger format sensor.
Also smaller sensors have a higher pixel density meaning they can see smaller details.
First time I've ever seen this argument - but I have seen an awful lot of reviews that suggest the full frame 135 size sensors really need to be paired with really good lenses as they show up the slightest flaws. And looks like that was Paul C's experience too? I suspect that APSC is much more forgiving of legacy lenses that were perhaps not at their best around the borders (because APSC only uses the centre of the lens)?JonSchick wrote:
But for me, the disadvantages outweigh the advantages... not least of which is that you need really top end glass with a larger sensor
Actually it's the other way around.But for me, the disadvantages outweigh the advantages... not least of which is that you need really top end glass with a larger sensor
Because the sensor is smaller a smaller part of the lens is used so any fault there will be larger relative compared to a larger format sensor.
Also smaller sensors have a higher pixel density meaning they can see smaller details.
About the rest maybe I worded it a bit wrong.
A 10mp 135format has larger pixels than a 10mp APS-C sensor that means the resolution/resolving power/sharpness of the lens must be 1,5 times higher on APS-C than it must on 135 format if we leave the difference of the pixel quality out of it.
Does that make sense?
So the smaller the sensor and/or the higher the resolution the more details the lens has to deliver to make use of it.
fatspider wrote:
This is just degenerting into another of those APS Vs 135 threads, mowog has made it clear that he would like to retain the "uncropped" results from his lenses, thats his choice.
That's what we know now, if you look at his first comments it looks like he didn't want the crop so he wants an 135format and he found APS-C strange, because of that he's buying a 4/3th system... it didn't make any sense.This is just degenerting into another of those APS Vs 135 threads, mowog has made it clear that he would like to retain the "uncropped" results from his lenses, thats his choice.
Now that he will use 4/3th as a compact system it does though.
Stefan
K10D, K5
DA* 16-50, DA* 50-135, D-FA 100 Macro, DA 40 Ltd, DA 18-55
AF-540FGZ
K10D, K5
DA* 16-50, DA* 50-135, D-FA 100 Macro, DA 40 Ltd, DA 18-55
AF-540FGZ
Posted 10/10/2010 - 22:23
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alun wrote:
For what its worth, here is my take.
My first Pentax was a Spotmatic, followed by several later film models. When the SLR market went digital, I waited. A work colleague bought a istD. Frankly, I was unimpressed. It seemed clunky and awkward, most un-Pentax like. And his particular model was prone to problems.
It seemed to me that it was not until the K10 that Pentax produced a DSLR that seemed worthy of the pedigree. Mowog, perhaps you just need a week or two with a current model?
You Sir are in danger of commiting a most Hienous heresy, the istD is a little gem, tread lightly Sir for you may be tarred and feathered and ejected from the forum with a broken sword.
For what its worth, here is my take.
My first Pentax was a Spotmatic, followed by several later film models. When the SLR market went digital, I waited. A work colleague bought a istD. Frankly, I was unimpressed. It seemed clunky and awkward, most un-Pentax like. And his particular model was prone to problems.
It seemed to me that it was not until the K10 that Pentax produced a DSLR that seemed worthy of the pedigree. Mowog, perhaps you just need a week or two with a current model?
Posted 10/10/2010 - 22:29
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I've read quite a lot of good review about the Pentax ist series cameras, that's actually how i came to know about Pentax.
Sadly at that time the price was to high for me so when i finally got some money the K10D was out and i bought that one, although i nearly bought a Nikon D80 but the Pentax seemed to offer more for the money and of course i've read about the sublime primes from Pentax.
Sadly at that time the price was to high for me so when i finally got some money the K10D was out and i bought that one, although i nearly bought a Nikon D80 but the Pentax seemed to offer more for the money and of course i've read about the sublime primes from Pentax.
Stefan
K10D, K5
DA* 16-50, DA* 50-135, D-FA 100 Macro, DA 40 Ltd, DA 18-55
AF-540FGZ
K10D, K5
DA* 16-50, DA* 50-135, D-FA 100 Macro, DA 40 Ltd, DA 18-55
AF-540FGZ
Posted 10/10/2010 - 23:38
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Blimey, fatspider, in light of those threats, I unreservedly withdraw all adverse comments concerning the istD...a great camera, clearly.
Posted 10/10/2010 - 23:46
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What a very curious thread that sort of sprang up spontaneously.
Best regards, John
Posted 11/10/2010 - 00:19
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Paul_C wrote:
I used to think I really needed a FF camera, so just last month I sold my K10d and bought a Canon 5D Mk1.
One thing I do like is the bigger view finder.
Noise level's at high ISO's was better
Thats about it really, image quality is not noticible any better.
The ergonomics are awfull compared to pentax ( camera dependant nothing to do with FF sensors)
Lenses are very expensive and the FF sensor shows up flaws in cheaper lenses.
After only a couple of weeks I sold it and went back to APS in the form of a GX-20. ( why have all the expense when i'm not getting any benifits)
I cant see why an APS sized sensor doesnt have a place when it is by far the most popular form of DSLR camera today and will continue to be for many years
There are endless amounts of lenses available including plenty of ultra wide's.
So the argument of wide angle lenses stay wide ect on on FF doesnt really stand up.
FF really did not offer me any impovment in my photography therfore I dont miss my 5D at all and actually much prefer my little APS camera.
My shooting buddy uses a Canon 5D Mk1. He's actually quite envious of some of the features on my K20D. His canon does have a better High ISO performance, but I've shown him the performance of the K-5 and now he's envious of that.I used to think I really needed a FF camera, so just last month I sold my K10d and bought a Canon 5D Mk1.
One thing I do like is the bigger view finder.
Noise level's at high ISO's was better
Thats about it really, image quality is not noticible any better.
The ergonomics are awfull compared to pentax ( camera dependant nothing to do with FF sensors)
Lenses are very expensive and the FF sensor shows up flaws in cheaper lenses.
After only a couple of weeks I sold it and went back to APS in the form of a GX-20. ( why have all the expense when i'm not getting any benifits)
I cant see why an APS sized sensor doesnt have a place when it is by far the most popular form of DSLR camera today and will continue to be for many years
There are endless amounts of lenses available including plenty of ultra wide's.
So the argument of wide angle lenses stay wide ect on on FF doesnt really stand up.
FF really did not offer me any impovment in my photography therfore I dont miss my 5D at all and actually much prefer my little APS camera.
I spent years shooting 35mm. I had no problem with a 1.5 focal length conversion, or more accurately a FOV conversion.
Each to their own though.
[i]Bodies: 1x K-5IIs, 2x K-5, Sony TX-5, Nokia 808
Lenses: Pentax DA 10-17mm ED(IF) Fish Eye, Pentax DA 14mm f/2.8, Sigma 17-70mm f/2.8, Pentax-A 28mm f/2.8, Sigma 30mm F1.4 EX DC, Pentax-A 50mm f/1.2, Pentax-A 50mm f/1.4, Pentax-FA 50mm f/1.4, Pentax-A 50mm f/1.7, Pentax DA* 50-135mm f/2.8, Sigma 135-400mm APO DG, and more ..
Flash: AF-540FGZ, Vivitar 283
Lenses: Pentax DA 10-17mm ED(IF) Fish Eye, Pentax DA 14mm f/2.8, Sigma 17-70mm f/2.8, Pentax-A 28mm f/2.8, Sigma 30mm F1.4 EX DC, Pentax-A 50mm f/1.2, Pentax-A 50mm f/1.4, Pentax-FA 50mm f/1.4, Pentax-A 50mm f/1.7, Pentax DA* 50-135mm f/2.8, Sigma 135-400mm APO DG, and more ..
Flash: AF-540FGZ, Vivitar 283
Posted 11/10/2010 - 08:28
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mowog wrote:
Hyram, you impertinent so and so, you!
Your car analogy doesn't stand up. A car is a single, self contained object. A camera system consists of body, lenses and accessories. The lenses being the greater and more expensive part.
Well, whatever route you choose - just keep enjoying your photography
Hyram, you impertinent so and so, you!
Your car analogy doesn't stand up. A car is a single, self contained object. A camera system consists of body, lenses and accessories. The lenses being the greater and more expensive part.
Hyram
Bodies: K20D (2), K10D, Super A, ME Super, Auto 110 SLR, X70, Optio P70
Pentax Glass: DA* 300, DA* 60-250, DA* 50-135, DA* 16-50, DA 70 Ltd, FA 31 Ltd, DA 35 Ltd, DA 18-55 (2), DA 12-24, DA 10-17, M 200, A 35-70, M 40, M 28, Converter-A 2X-S, 1.4X-S, AF 1.7, Pentax-110 50, Pentax-110 24
Other Glass: Sigma 105 macro, Sigma-A APO 75-300
Flash: Metz 58 AF-1 P, Pentax AF160FC ringflash, Pentax AF280T
Bodies: K20D (2), K10D, Super A, ME Super, Auto 110 SLR, X70, Optio P70
Pentax Glass: DA* 300, DA* 60-250, DA* 50-135, DA* 16-50, DA 70 Ltd, FA 31 Ltd, DA 35 Ltd, DA 18-55 (2), DA 12-24, DA 10-17, M 200, A 35-70, M 40, M 28, Converter-A 2X-S, 1.4X-S, AF 1.7, Pentax-110 50, Pentax-110 24
Other Glass: Sigma 105 macro, Sigma-A APO 75-300
Flash: Metz 58 AF-1 P, Pentax AF160FC ringflash, Pentax AF280T
Posted 11/10/2010 - 13:15
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I'm bemused.
The technology in your *istD is 7 years old. How can you possibly imagine that the K10D/K20D/K-7/K-5 are not significantly different?
To put you wise, they are poles apart in fact. The only feature of the *istD that I miss is it's TTL compatibility. How much do I miss it? The more I use P-TTL/Manual, not very much.
The *istD is a super camera, but the newer models are much better, and I don't mean that they have more functions & features that see little use. I mean that the modern cameras a more capable of taking good images in a wider variety of scenarios. Try getting a useable image at 6400 ISO with a *istD.
Do yourself a favour and try a 'modern' DSLR. I'm sure you will be pleasantly surprised.
The technology in your *istD is 7 years old. How can you possibly imagine that the K10D/K20D/K-7/K-5 are not significantly different?
To put you wise, they are poles apart in fact. The only feature of the *istD that I miss is it's TTL compatibility. How much do I miss it? The more I use P-TTL/Manual, not very much.
The *istD is a super camera, but the newer models are much better, and I don't mean that they have more functions & features that see little use. I mean that the modern cameras a more capable of taking good images in a wider variety of scenarios. Try getting a useable image at 6400 ISO with a *istD.
Do yourself a favour and try a 'modern' DSLR. I'm sure you will be pleasantly surprised.
Peter E Smith - flickr Photostream
Posted 11/10/2010 - 15:59
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If ever there was a thread I wish I'd never started, it's this one!
Peter.
You are bemused because you have not fully understood (or I have not put well enough) my previous comments in this thread.
I'm sure newer Pentax Dslr cameras are much better than my istD, but not in the way I want. I don't want 14 million pixels. The six million I have are plenty good enough for me. I don't want video capability or weather sealing, or anything else that the newer models offer. As far as performance and features go, I'm very content with my D. The only thing I really want in a digital SLR camera is a full frame sensor, and only because all the lenses I have were designed to put an image of a certain size on a 36X24mm surface. I still think in 35mm terms when it comes to the application of lenses.
If Pentax do not make one, I will not be buying another Digital SLR, from Pentax or anyone else. Hence the title of this thread.
Somebody earlier on used the word frustration, in regards my post. Yes! - That is exactly it. I am frustrated with Pentax's inability to make the thing I really want to buy.
Now, please people. Let's draw a line under this one, eh!
Peter.
You are bemused because you have not fully understood (or I have not put well enough) my previous comments in this thread.
I'm sure newer Pentax Dslr cameras are much better than my istD, but not in the way I want. I don't want 14 million pixels. The six million I have are plenty good enough for me. I don't want video capability or weather sealing, or anything else that the newer models offer. As far as performance and features go, I'm very content with my D. The only thing I really want in a digital SLR camera is a full frame sensor, and only because all the lenses I have were designed to put an image of a certain size on a 36X24mm surface. I still think in 35mm terms when it comes to the application of lenses.
If Pentax do not make one, I will not be buying another Digital SLR, from Pentax or anyone else. Hence the title of this thread.
Somebody earlier on used the word frustration, in regards my post. Yes! - That is exactly it. I am frustrated with Pentax's inability to make the thing I really want to buy.
Now, please people. Let's draw a line under this one, eh!
No man is worth his salt, who has not been banned from at least one Forum, and two Flickr groups.
Mowog.
Mowog.
Posted 11/10/2010 - 16:44
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Pffft. I can't imagine what sort of response you expected when you started a thread with a provocative title like this one. And then back it up with very tenuous reasoning.
As far as i can make out your primary issue is your apparent inability to mentally multiply focal lengths by a factor of 1.5
As far as i can make out your primary issue is your apparent inability to mentally multiply focal lengths by a factor of 1.5
Tim
AF - Pentax K5, Sigma 10-20/4-5.6, Tamron 17-50/2.8, Sigma 30/1.4, Sigma 70-200/2.8, Tamron 70-300/4-5.6
MF - Vivitar CF 28/2.8, Tamron AD2 90/2.5, MTO 1000/11
Stuff - Metz 58 AF1, Cactus v4, Nikon SB24, Raynox 150, Sigma 1.4x TC, Sigma 2x TC, Kenko 2x macro TC, Redsnapper 283 tripod, iMac 27”, Macbook Pro 17”, iPad, iPhone 3G
Flickr • Fluidr • PPG • Street • Portfolio site
Feel free to edit any of my posted photos! If I post a photo for critique, I want brutal honesty. If you don't like it, please say so and tell me why!
AF - Pentax K5, Sigma 10-20/4-5.6, Tamron 17-50/2.8, Sigma 30/1.4, Sigma 70-200/2.8, Tamron 70-300/4-5.6
MF - Vivitar CF 28/2.8, Tamron AD2 90/2.5, MTO 1000/11
Stuff - Metz 58 AF1, Cactus v4, Nikon SB24, Raynox 150, Sigma 1.4x TC, Sigma 2x TC, Kenko 2x macro TC, Redsnapper 283 tripod, iMac 27”, Macbook Pro 17”, iPad, iPhone 3G
Flickr • Fluidr • PPG • Street • Portfolio site
Feel free to edit any of my posted photos! If I post a photo for critique, I want brutal honesty. If you don't like it, please say so and tell me why!
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6213 posts
20 years
Winterpeg Manitoba Canada
I just see a good camera that happens to be more cost effective because my old lenses work well.
I just don't see the downside to my digital workflow.
Pentax wants to impress me, ff isn't the way to go.... bring out a sister model to the k5..... call it the k5v...
ditch the sr if need be, add a pelicile mirror, BIG heat sink on the sensor, articulated flip out lcd with touch screen.... and dual card slots and make it primarily a video camera.... able to record an hour or two with no issues.
that sony nex g10 would be soooooo sweet if it came from Pentax with the standard k-mount....