Leaning pic's with the K10D

Fair enough. But not ad nauseam, please.

G

I don't find it is matsoberg that is "ad nauseuming" (no spelling lessons please )but it is the confusion added by all the advice offered by others that have not properly read his first two posts. Seems to me he has done a simple valid test with shake reduction OFF to prove the viewfinder is out of sync with reality. He was only asking if anyone else noticed this problem with the K10D and while it appears some are also having the same problem, others are confusing the matter with their flawed advice and matsoberg is just trying to clarify his question so they can "get it". Could it be that some of the K10D owners here are just not receptive to hearing about adding to the growing list of K10D problems?

Drew

What list? Please elucidate.

G

I think that he may be referring to:

1) metering "problems" with manual lenses
2) I don't know

this leaning issue could be a problem but we should not run ahead and just wait what the pentax workshop has to say about the camera of the topic starter.

I am very interested in the outcome and please let us all keep the good mood around here and not end up in discussions which lead to shouting and such...

Hahaha What took you so long George?

Yes, I wondered if I should have included that last sentence. Maybe just take out the "growing list" statement. The "list" is not really available for public circulation as it my own personal list as to why I will or will not be buying a K10D. So far I have down, banding, flawed exposures with M lenses, totally ineffective sensor cleaning, and not compatible with TTL flash (my problem) to name some. There also seems to me an inordinate amount of physical problems cropping up with individuals posting here so I'm wondering if maybe there could be quality control problems too. I should have known that statement would have taken the topic on a different direction. Sorry for that, but I just wanted to point out the K10D owners (and previously the *ist D owners) seem overly sensitive about any trouble found and often lean towards user error first and sometimes quite rudely. Just my opinion.

Regards

Drew

PS: George, you almost never fail to make me get out my dictionary.

Well after reading the original post and all the replys I feel I must come to the defense of the K10D, EVERY camera I have had, used, or borrowed has turned out slanting pictures, my K10D is perfect

TTL metering is not a "problem" as in a defect. It is not something which pentax promised that would work, but doesn't. TTL is dead, so use P-TTL.
Banding is an effect which is only present in some rare cases, it is not present in every picture you take.
Metering in M lenses is a "bug", true, but maybe it can be fixed in the firmware.

Yes, and that is why I said "my problem" as in... a problem for me. I did not intend to get into this debate here and I apologised for the "growing list" comment. Let's just let the topic go forward with the problem as posted.

Good idea to put the question to a poll to see how prevalent the problem is.

Drew

So I sometimes fail? I shall have to try harder, or suffer condign punishment.

Well, let's have a look:

Banding may be a problem for people who photograph black cats in coal cellars, but not for people who use light in their photographs.

Inaccurate meter readings (NOT flawed exposures) with M lenses. Yes, that's a bug. Easily dealt with, and not an issue for people who use the camera with the lenses for which it was designed. The writing was on the wall for M lenses when Pentax removed the aperture simulator on the MZ-50 ten years ago.

Ineffective sensor cleaning. Actually, no. I have never had to clean my sensor in nine months of owning a K10D, whereas I do have to on occasion with my *ist D. It may not be perfect, but it does seem to work. But if it didn't, it wouldn't constitute a major issue. Incidentally, my cameras are set to clean the sensor every time they are turned on.

TTL flash. As you say, that's your problem, not the camera's.

Inordinate number of physical problems. Strangely enough, most people here, and most people on the PDML, find that their cameras work just fine. Of course, everybody on DPReview has a problem, and the cure for them is brain surgery.

And finally, what about these *ist D problems you refer to? In four years of ownership, and two bodies (one since sold) I have only had a problem when I dropped one and tore off the hotshoe (which held a flashgun at the time). Of course, I blamed the camera. I was having a DPReview day.

G

The K10D is the best camera I have ever owned. I am very happy with mine. I can't comment on the specimens that other users may have in their possession.

Incidentaly, I have also discovered that in 8 months of K10 ownership I have put 9,000 images through it. In 2.5 years of owning a DS I only put 6,000 images through that body. Partly is is the sheer enjoyment of the experience and quality of the K10D that encourages me to get it out at any opportunity.

You people are twisting the whole point of my post and all because of my poorly worded comment of the "growing list of K10D problems". I have already requested a retraction of those few words and offered my apologies for sending this topic sideways. My post was only meant to point out that the OP was reporting a legitimate observed problem with his K10D and I felt he was being unfairly jumped on. Just because you personally have never experienced the OP's problem (or any K10D problem for that matter) does not mean it is not real or that he is not smart enough to figure out that his house is crooked and his camera is perfect.

I have made MY personal list of K10D problems from reading many months of discussions here and from elsewhere (and I'm sure there will be comments on that too) and valid points have been made concerning my “list”. However, everything on my list has happened to several people and it could be possible most are just problems with individual units, but I have no intention of participating in a bladder voiding competition with anyone that believes Pentax is infallible. I still stick with my opinion that a small group of prolific posters here simply protest too much if someone finds any fault (whether real of not) with the latest Pentax brand they own and that is what I meant when mentioning the *ist D - when it was itself the latest and the greatest. Like our esteemed friend Don once said, "It's only a tool" and may I add... not a religion. When one in our group finds a problem we should be all ears, not disparage him.

I do not wish to ignore posts that are directed to my possibly flawed opinions but we can see indeed how quickly things progress to the ad nauseum stage and this is the last I have to say about it in this subject/topic.

Anyone have anything else to add about the leaning viewfinder problem?

Drew

Just to add to the list, integrated flash failures, corner of the case cracking, dust under the rear LCD and my K10D has a finder misalignment exactly as per Mats description (as do several other K10D bodies that I'm aware of).

Cheers,

Rob

@distudio

can you post pictures showing the cracked case? And what flash failures are you talking about?

Did you allready give pentax a chance to fix these issues for you?
I mean, it is good to report problems, but my idea is allways to first give the manufaturer a chance to fix the issue before I start posting messages about a "problem".
Only if I am absolutely shure that there is a problem in the construction of a device or in the quality control area then I will start putting the pressure on a manufacturer.

The fact is that there are far more users here without problems then users with problems.

The situation is that there are more and more K10's sold and in that case you will see more problems as well because no product is flawless and no quality control department can give you 100% certainty.

More of a product sold = more reported problems.

This is true for each and every object you can buy, not matter what it is.

What worries me is the prospect of this list degenerating into another nitpickers' forum like DPReview. It's nothing to do with Pentax; all brands suffer from a small but vocal group of people who expect their equipment to be more than perfect, and whine and whinge endlessly when it isn't.

Further down is a post from Rob, who spends quite a lot of time complaining about Pentax on a number of other lists, including the PDML and DPReview. He is aggrieved because Pentax cancelled the original MZ-D after he had invested in a lot of expensive lenses (see the PDML archive from three years or four years ago) and, like a woman scorned, loses no opportunity to bring Pentax's imperfections to as wide a public as possible.

This is a variation of the Goebbels approach. Repeat a lie often enough and people believe it. I am sure that everything Rob says is completely true, but by repeating his complaints in as many forums as possible, he creates an impression that there are more problems than there actually are.

The funny thing is that even on DPReview, users rate the K10D extremely highly - indeed more highly than ANY Canon DSLR is rated by Canon users, including the most expensive ones. The K10D gets a rating of 4.8 out of five, or 96%, one of the highest for any camera. This is hardly the result you would expect from a camera with lots of problems.

I am sure that there ARE valid viewfinder problems, and flash problems, and the occasional cracked case; and I know that the K10D doesn't meter properly with K and M lenses. But let's put it in perspective and get on with what this forum is for: discussing photography, Pentax equipment, and good malt whisky.

G

Hi golfdiesel,

There are several threads on DPR outlining the cracked case issue, it appears to be either a molding issue or an assembly/torque issue, it has affected many bodies fortunately mine is not one.

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1036&message=23936138
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1036&message=23956826

Quite a few K10D appear to have succumbed to electronics failure in the flash units, some bad enough that the smoke escaped from the components, fortunately again mine is not one of these

There are also quite a few reports of the SR lever breaking off the body (the design appears to have significant inherent weakness) and reports of water ingress through the shutter button and AF sensor selector during exposure to light rain (including a refusal for service under warranty due to water ingress under light rain).

Certainly but given the lack of response to my attempts thus far to organize repair locally I think it's appropriate to discuss the issue with other owners. If other owners have similar problems (which in this case you would have to agree is a yes) I can then cite other instances of the same problem occurring in order to demand a remedy.

Indeed but I suspect in some cases and in particular this finder issue we are seeing systematic QC/assembly failures.

Is this solely a forum in with we discuss Pentax DSLRs without problems?

Cheers,

PS You can call me touaregpetrol if you are so inclined