K3 II AF...


jules

Link Posted 24/04/2015 - 08:03
It would seem that the entire AF improvment on the K3II 's tracking is algorithm based? If so it could be implemented on the K3 (Original) but will they?
Not immediately but perhaps but sometime in the near future, it would seem that it is to stay in the range for a bit, well at least until stocks run out, or maybe it already has been silently implemented with the new firmware (V:1.20) but I'm not going to drop two grand on a lens to find out, as I really don't think anyone would notice the difference on any SDM lenses...
I think I'll be holding on to my K3 for a bit and wait and see what we do and don't get, mmmm Limiteds...
Cheers Jules...
tri-elmar-fudd

Back in the room!
“The single most important component of a camera is the twelve inches behind it.”...Ansel Adams
www.exaggeratedperspectives.com
Last Edited by jules on 24/04/2015 - 08:04

jeallen01

Link Posted 24/04/2015 - 08:22
Much as I would like to see the new algorithm available for the original K-3, I suspect that it won't be because that would counter-productive for sales of the new version - why buy the new version if the old version would now do what most people want for the bodies that they already have?

I hope I'm wrong, but we will have to wait and see.

OTOH, maybe someone (very clever!) will unofficially reverse-engineer the new algorithm for the older body?
K-3 II, K-3 and K-30 (now running the Hacked K-50 f/w, so it thinks it is one of those ), & some Sigma and Pentax lenses (and a lot of old 35mm gear!) - and now a K-70 from SRS

jules

Link Posted 24/04/2015 - 08:46
jeallen01 wrote:
Much as I would like to see the new algorithm available for the original K-3, I suspect that it won't be because that would counter-productive for sales of the new version - why buy the new version if the old version would now do what most people want for the bodies that they already have?

I hope I'm wrong, but we will have to wait and see.

OTOH, maybe someone (very clever!) will unofficially reverse-engineer the new algorithm for the older body?

Broadly in agreement with you there but I do feel if there is a performance increase with AF possible that it should be across the board for the current range including the K S1 and K S2 but as you say we'll have to wait and see, the K3 II still has GPS, 4.5 stops of SR +panning SR (Vs3.5) Pixel Shifting, directional compass, which are quite a few extras, all for want of a pop up flash, not a bad trade really, Ricoh should do a kit with that new little flashgun and the 16-85 in a posh box, make a good pressie for someone (ME!)
Cheers Jules...
tri-elmar-fudd

Back in the room!
“The single most important component of a camera is the twelve inches behind it.”...Ansel Adams
www.exaggeratedperspectives.com

richandfleur

Link Posted 24/04/2015 - 08:58
Pentax has not been particularly proactive in pushing these sorts of improvements down the chain.
The high res mode seems an easy addition to any camera with capable hardware, which is like down to the k100d. It would be interesting to see if this eventuates as a firmware update or not.

Other brands, in a world outside the scope of this forum, are better at this post purchase support and I feel it's something Pentax/Ricoh could improve on or learn from.

vic cross

Link Posted 24/04/2015 - 08:59
I've asked this question in another thread but so far no answer. Does the K3ii have the same switch on, switch off filter system? You know the one I mean. The same filter that the K5ii has, but the K5iis doesn't have. I think it's called the AA filter. Does that all make sense?
CHEERS Vic.
Born again biker with lots of Pentax bits. Every day I wake up is a good day. I'm so old I don't even buy green bananas.

alfpics

Link Posted 24/04/2015 - 09:07
richandfleur wrote:
Pentax has not been particularly proactive in pushing these sorts of improvements down the chain.
The high res mode seems an easy addition to any camera with capable hardware, which is like down to the k100d. It would be interesting to see if this eventuates as a firmware update or not.

Other brands, in a world outside the scope of this forum, are better at this post purchase support and I feel it's something Pentax/Ricoh could improve on or learn from.

I don't see how they could replicate the hi-res mode back down the line. Pentax's implementation is to move the RGBG filter separate to the sensor. If I understand it correctly, they need to shake mechanisms; one for the SR we know and the AA simulator, and a separate one just to move the filter now separated from the sensor
Andy

MattMatic

Link Posted 24/04/2015 - 10:44
Quote:
Pentax's implementation is to move the RGBG filter separate to the sensor.

Not sure that's a requirement.
Probably done by moving the whole sensor 1 pixel - then each physical pixel position will be exposed to each of the colours.
Matt
http://www.mattmatic.co.uk
(For gallery, tips and links)

McGregNi

Link Posted 24/04/2015 - 10:44
In answer to Vics question above, the K5iis has no AA filter, therefore it is permanently 'off'. The k3 also has no physical filter but the sensor shake system provides a 'simulated' aa filter effect, and that can be switched on and off, as well as in two degrees of strength.

I believe the new K3ii continues with this exact same 'aa filter simulator'.
My Guides to the Pentax Digital Camera Flash Lighting System : Download here from the PentaxForums Homepage Article .... link
Pentax K7 with BG-4 Grip / Samyang 14mm f2.8 ED AS IF UMC / DA18-55mm f3.5-5.6 AL WR / SMC A28mm f2.8 / D FA 28-105mm / SMC F35-70 f3.5-4.5 / SMC A50mm f1.7 / Tamron AF70-300mm f4-5.6 Di LD macro / SMC M75-150mm f4.0 / Tamron Adaptall (CT-135) 135mm f2.8 / Asahi Takumar-A 2X tele-converter / Pentax AF-540FGZ (I & II) Flashes / Cactus RF60/X Flashes & V6/V6II Transceiver
Last Edited by McGregNi on 24/04/2015 - 10:50

jules

Link Posted 24/04/2015 - 10:51
vic cross wrote:
I've asked this question in another thread but so far no answer. Does the K3ii have the same switch on, switch off filter system? You know the one I mean. The same filter that the K5ii has, but the K5iis doesn't have. I think it's called the AA filter. Does that all make sense?
CHEERS Vic.

Exactly the same Vic, in fact the whole image chain appears to be the same, I was hoping for the same sensor as the new DXO King the, D7200. You never know but then again DXO kind of skews the results in favour of Nikon, not by any duplicity, just the way they score by default set up...
Cheers Jules...
tri-elmar-fudd

Back in the room!
“The single most important component of a camera is the twelve inches behind it.”...Ansel Adams
www.exaggeratedperspectives.com

alfpics

Link Posted 24/04/2015 - 15:12
MattMatic wrote:
Quote:
Pentax's implementation is to move the RGBG filter separate to the sensor.

Not sure that's a requirement.
Probably done by moving the whole sensor 1 pixel - then each physical pixel position will be exposed to each of the colours.
Matt

Ah - you're probably right Matt
Andy

WaypointCharlie

Link Posted 24/04/2015 - 16:12
And will the raw file of the co-sited RGB pixels be understood by Adobe Camera Raw? I'm not sure they've really understood the Fuji X-Trans sensor array yet.
Last Edited by WaypointCharlie on 24/04/2015 - 16:13

McGregNi

Link Posted 24/04/2015 - 17:29
What's not quite yet clear, well at least to me, is whether the pixel-shifted image will only emerge onto the SD card as a single 'synthesized' RAW image (or a single jpeg having been further processed normally from the synthesized RAW ) .... ???

The press release statement says that as an alternative to this the synthesizing can be carried out in the utility software (PDCU update presumably) or via in-camera ' RAW Development'. This opens up questions .... Most obviously, do we get the option to save the 4 separate RAW files individually in order to carry out this processing?
My Guides to the Pentax Digital Camera Flash Lighting System : Download here from the PentaxForums Homepage Article .... link
Pentax K7 with BG-4 Grip / Samyang 14mm f2.8 ED AS IF UMC / DA18-55mm f3.5-5.6 AL WR / SMC A28mm f2.8 / D FA 28-105mm / SMC F35-70 f3.5-4.5 / SMC A50mm f1.7 / Tamron AF70-300mm f4-5.6 Di LD macro / SMC M75-150mm f4.0 / Tamron Adaptall (CT-135) 135mm f2.8 / Asahi Takumar-A 2X tele-converter / Pentax AF-540FGZ (I & II) Flashes / Cactus RF60/X Flashes & V6/V6II Transceiver

drobbia

Link Posted 26/04/2015 - 17:29
All the above leads me to think that the K3II is a work in progress for features planned for the "new" FF.
"It's not what you look at that's important, it's what you see" - Thoreau
Quote:

Smeggypants

Link Posted 26/04/2015 - 19:16
McGregNi wrote:
What's not quite yet clear, well at least to me, is whether the pixel-shifted image will only emerge onto the SD card as a single 'synthesized' RAW image (or a single jpeg having been further processed normally from the synthesized RAW ) .... ???

The press release statement says that as an alternative to this the synthesizing can be carried out in the utility software (PDCU update presumably) or via in-camera ' RAW Development'. This opens up questions .... Most obviously, do we get the option to save the 4 separate RAW files individually in order to carry out this processing?

If the pixel shifted result is only available as a jpg that would be a very poor show indeed
[i]Bodies: 1x K-5IIs, 2x K-5, Sony TX-5, Nokia 808
Lenses: Pentax DA 10-17mm ED(IF) Fish Eye, Pentax DA 14mm f/2.8, Sigma 17-70mm f/2.8, Pentax-A 28mm f/2.8, Sigma 30mm F1.4 EX DC, Pentax-A 50mm f/1.2, Pentax-A 50mm f/1.4, Pentax-FA 50mm f/1.4, Pentax-A 50mm f/1.7, Pentax DA* 50-135mm f/2.8, Sigma 135-400mm APO DG, and more ..
Flash: AF-540FGZ, Vivitar 283

McGregNi

Link Posted 26/04/2015 - 19:38
It's interesting really ... 'processing' usually implies the conversion from the camera-captured data into either a RAW storage format, or directly in-cameras to a jpeg, or from a RAW format into a Tiff or jpeg on a computer. But here we have a new term (new in this context anyway) .... Synthesizing. So what's the difference between processing and synthesizing?

I'm not aware of any way, either in a camera or on a computer, of taking 4 sets of image data and merging then into a new single RAW .... Could this be the meaning of a new in-camera process ... 'synthesizing', and could it also apply to a new technique in computer software where the user carries out the synthesizing, presumably in an updated version of Pentax Digital Camera Utility ?
My Guides to the Pentax Digital Camera Flash Lighting System : Download here from the PentaxForums Homepage Article .... link
Pentax K7 with BG-4 Grip / Samyang 14mm f2.8 ED AS IF UMC / DA18-55mm f3.5-5.6 AL WR / SMC A28mm f2.8 / D FA 28-105mm / SMC F35-70 f3.5-4.5 / SMC A50mm f1.7 / Tamron AF70-300mm f4-5.6 Di LD macro / SMC M75-150mm f4.0 / Tamron Adaptall (CT-135) 135mm f2.8 / Asahi Takumar-A 2X tele-converter / Pentax AF-540FGZ (I & II) Flashes / Cactus RF60/X Flashes & V6/V6II Transceiver
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